Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

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Manatikik
Posts: 1124

Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#1 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:59 pm

Issue

Assault Stance has issues doing burst damage from melee and one issue with it is getting Parried too frequently. This is only an issue due to the way RoR has changed/handles defensive stats and piercing defensive stats; they also added Dodge/Parry/Block/Disrupt Strikethrough on end game gear to be the "new" offensive way of dealing with defensive stats as opposed to just stacking STR/BS/Int. This issue with this for Assault SW's is while plenty of items have Dodge Strikethrough for SW's, none have Parry Strikethrough to try and stay relevant through itemization.

Proposal

Have Assault Stance's effect of counting BS > STR, Ranged Crit > Melee Crit, and Ranged Power > Melee Power also do Dodge Strikethrough > Parry Strikethrough. I think this stays in line with the idea/spirit behind Assault Stance without being too powerful of a change.

Note: I also feel SH need this as well but I do not know where/how to implement it for them since I haven't looked closely at their Melee Mechanics ever (guessing Squig Armor though)
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Penril
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Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#2 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:06 pm

Moving to Discussions.

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Toldavf
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Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#3 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:51 pm

Maybe its something that is easier to fix with itemisation?

You have 2 specs scout/skirmish and skirmish/assault. Would it not be easier to fix up an rdps set and a assault hybrid set rather than doing some probably more extensive coding? And wouldn't this give similar results.

The problem with your suggestion is the additional stats that could be gained specifically MP and RP both of these stats are rare atm and while i doubt you would be able to get enough of either to make a massive difference i would be cautious about such things.

I don't think your suggestion is bad and i don't think what you are asking for is unreasonable however.
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Manatikik
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Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#4 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:36 pm

Toldavf wrote:Maybe its something that is easier to fix with itemisation?

You have 2 specs scout/skirmish and skirmish/assault. Would it not be easier to fix up an rdps set and a assault hybrid set rather than doing some probably more extensive coding? And wouldn't this give similar results.

The problem with your suggestion is the additional stats that could be gained specifically MP and RP both of these stats are rare atm and while i doubt you would be able to get enough of either to make a massive difference i would be cautious about such things.

I don't think your suggestion is bad and i don't think what you are asking for is unreasonable however.
The only issue I can see with fixing through itemization is having a third or fourth set needed for an Assault spec which then would put a heavy burden on SW's to farm more types of sets; conversely if you just change up some of the item stats to have PST instead then you're hurting the large majority of SW's who will never use melee ASW.

But yea, all in all I don't think this change would make or break anything but help alleviate some issues that the new system has caused ASW; though over all it needs a lot of love to be "viable".
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Bozzax
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Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#5 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:59 am

A small observation

If you drop for example MA for PD you'll likely do more damage on average and negate about 40-60 renown points worth of avoidance. Your burst/debuffing will be more reliable as well (Provided your target has more then 15% parry ofc)

Sloting it more or less gives you the highest strikethrough of all Pdps. (Vs deftard snb tanks you can go even more crazy by slotting you racial).

A neat side effect is that your entire Pdps team gets to enjoy the same strikethrough debuff (average damage buff)
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Ugle
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Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#6 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:54 am

Bozzax wrote:A small observation

If you drop for example MA for PD you'll likely do more damage on average and negate about 40-60 renown points worth of avoidance. Your burst/debuffing will be more reliable as well (Provided your target has more then 15% parry ofc)

Sloting it more or less gives you the highest strikethrough of all Pdps. (Vs deftard snb tanks you can go even more crazy by slotting you racial).

A neat side effect is that your entire Pdps team gets to enjoy the same strikethrough debuff (average damage buff)
no room for neither MA or PD as ASW due to other obligatory tactics for ASW specc to perform somewhat.
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anarchypark
Posts: 1602

Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#7 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:12 pm

Pierce Defenses triggered when you are defended. high strikethrough/stat is actually preventing its trigger.
I use it with my poor 450 BS + LA aoe.
This ASW build have to abandon dps.
It's debuff spam build, for others.
450BS, 530str i hit like deftard tank.
raise stat? PD less pop. then it's waste of tactic slot.
melee or range, PD is not synergy well with dps build.
OP is aiming pure melee dps it seems.
no room for PD in dps build.
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lefze
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Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#8 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:46 pm

anarchypark wrote:Pierce Defenses triggered when you are defended. high strikethrough/stat is actually preventing its trigger.
I use it with my poor 450 BS + LA aoe.
This ASW build have to abandon dps.
It's debuff spam build, for others.
450BS, 530str i hit like deftard tank.
raise stat? PD less pop. then it's waste of tactic slot.
melee or range, PD is not synergy well with dps build.
OP is aiming pure melee dps it seems.
no room for PD in dps build.
If you can't get PD to proc, that would mean OPs issue doens't exist, just saying. And saying there's no room for PD is kinda wrong, 15% damage from no respite is kinda worse than an additional 15% chance to hit at all which in theory results in the same dps, but 15% avoidance strikethough is so much better against tagets with avoidance.

Now I don't really see the issue with lacking parry strikethrough, it's more of an issue that SW can't dualwield thus automatically having 10(?)% less parry than other melee dps classes. When taking both issues into consideration there is a problem, but I believe this whole thing can be evened out by giving SW the parry bonus of dualwield.
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anarchypark
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Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#9 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:38 pm

lefze wrote: If you can't get PD to proc, that would mean OPs issue doens't exist, just saying.
since when proc chance of PD become measure for right strikethrough number?
strikethrough is just dps stat, higher better.
OP wants higher strikethrough as 1h mdps = less PD.
why would u use tactic that will proc less in your build.

if you wants high PD, go with less strikethrough/BS. ( already told u i hit like deftard tank )
maybe there is golden zone, getting strikethrough and PD both. idk.
let us know if u find it.
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lefze
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Re: Assault Stance: Dodge/Parry Strikethrough

Post#10 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:15 pm

anarchypark wrote:
lefze wrote: If you can't get PD to proc, that would mean OPs issue doens't exist, just saying.
since when proc chance of PD become measure for right strikethrough number?
strikethrough is just dps stat, higher better.
OP wants higher strikethrough as 1h mdps = less PD.
why would u use tactic that will proc less in your build.

if you wants high PD, go with less strikethrough/BS. ( already told u i hit like deftard tank )
maybe there is golden zone, getting strikethrough and PD both. idk.
let us know if u find it.
First of all, you hit like a deftard tank because you have half the offensive stats you could easily achieve. I mean, you can litterally softcap ws and still almost softcap ballskill/strenght, without slotting Masterful aim (which you should never do, really).

Second thing I wanna point out is that BS/strenght doesn't affect enemy dodge/parry at all, unless their initiative/ws is like 1k+, which is insane to even discuss, and the whole matter of disussing how strikethrough is gonna negatively affect PD is also pretty insane. I mean, you're never gonna get 20+ strikethrough on gear, even with the proposed changes of the OP, so PD will proc anyways as it doesn't have an ICD or proc chance, it's 100% chance to activate whenever someone avoids an attack. The point is, the "golden zone" for PD doesn't exist, it is situationally useful, just as a tactic should be. Either your target has avoidance, and it WILL proc no matter what and be supergood, or your taget doesn't and it won't proc and there is no need for you to worry about avoidance.

And it seems you didn't understand why I brought up PD. I'm more or less saying that the change proposed would still not balance melee sw to other mdps because of only having one sword. Giving SW the dualwield bonus instead of increasing strikethrough would even out the power between a sw, and let's say a WE or marauder as they would have more equal parry. And having a 15% strikethough tactic should really be an obvious tactic to slot if you got problems with attacks being defended.

And now, taking PD into account when discussing the changes of the OP would probably make them a little bit too strong when only taking your outgoing damage into account. You could essentially build to strike through massive amounts of parry, and still not be competitive, as the enemy would still have more parry than you thanks thanks to the dualwield bonus.

So all in all I believe there is a balance issue between SW and other mdps when it comes to parry, but I don't think it would be balanced out by just doing the change OP suggested.
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