Mara Or DOK

[Dalgrimar]

Mara is a good pick.


And to be honest mara is the best main assist in a melee group. He can play with all other mdps ,the combo is great.
You play with a 2 handed bg ? Great , use savagery and swap brutality build and spamm impale for 1200 damage and guillotine for 2k damage after applying debuffs.
With a choppa ? Ok play in savagery and swap brut and see your choppa hit for absurd amount once your target are debuffed.
With another marau ? both sav and brut !
In wb ? Go on monstro and aoe morale debuff.

Edited it a bit cuz that post made no sense sory.

[Kalt]

No sorry my post made sense.

In combo with a bg , there is no point applying debuff. Bg apply the debuff for you and give the mara the possibility to play in full brut .
Bg can apply all the debuff a sav mara can , so no point in having both of them. Go full brut and be a hard hitter.

With a choppa , it s much more important to apply the debuff , so i play in full savagery.
Mainly for the reason that stance dancing is useless. If stance dance you loose the scything talons tactic. How can you possibly be ok to loose 320 main stat (init and weapon skill) to gain the ability to use guillotine ?
So i prefer to use full savagery when solo roaming or in assist with a choppa. And full brut when i play with a 2h bg.

I'm curious how much chance to be crit you have in stance dance , how much crit ,damage bonus and how much armor pen ?

At the moment i have in full sav , 41 % armor pen , 21 % crit , 5 % chance to be crit , 231 damage bonus , 8k hp.
I have feading on fear ,so this up my crit to 41 % but make me 15 % chance to be crit.
If i skip scyting talons , i get 10 % chance to be crit , and up to 20 % with fof up

Scyting talons and the equivalent tactic in brut (the one with str/init) cover the main weakness of the marauder : his lack of initiative.

A marauder have 120 or 140 base init and not a great amount can be harness by gear. Without scyting talons in savagery or the equivalent in bruta , you are going to run in open between 0/40 initiative each time you are hit by a init debuff. I do the test ,and get like 40 % chance to be crit. It s not something acceptable for me.

Chance to be crit is too important to be pass on imo.

Don t forget that weapon skill affect all your damage , even the auto attack damage.
I have a 2s aa speed (onslaught shoulders +conqueror gloves give + 20 % aa haste), and they can hit for 1k3/1k5 when they both crit thanks to weapon skill + armor debuff.
All good melee dps can say this . auto attack are the main damage source . no ap cost , each 2 s , you can crit for 1k+. Wich skill can do that ?
Without scyting talons my armor pen drop to 30 % and i can see a substantial drop in auto attack damage.
Sure in stance dance you can use piercing bite , but it only affect mutation requiring skill , so it does not affect your aa and some of your skill.
Don't get me wrong. It s a great tactic. But it s a a much more usefull one for a full brut marauder

It's for a reason that the best marauder here (theodonne) play only in full savagery and never do stance dance bruta build.

[Dalgrimar]

You mentioning weaponskill on mara made me quit reading already.
You also know that Sav debuffs have super high tooltip dmg?
You will do way more dmg applying debuffs first than swapping brut.
Applying debuffs takes 2s.
+ Its good if it stacks on the BG debuffs cuz than you avoid a cleanse.
30points FS 3stages crit 10 points ini. 16% base crit

[Kalt]

And how much with a ini debuff ?
Weapon skill is a great stat imo. It give armor penetration and parry. So more damage and more defense at the same time.

I just look at your marauder. You have far less strenght than me. Far less weapon skill , far less init ,far less parry and far less wounds.

1021 str.
570 ws.
390 init
8k wounds
21 % crit
230 damage bonus
30 % parry
2 aa per sec

And iam only rr63 ,when you marau are 72 .
You just put all your rr into futile strike , and call it a day.

It s not a good move. As soon as you get hit by a ini debuff ,your going to be crit for a stupid amount.

Anyway , this discussion is just a non sense .
You just come here and says "trollolol your build is bad and you are bad"
I play my marauder in a different way than yours. But hey my build is probably bad ,hence this is why i can hit 200k damage for 20 kill in sc ?

I'm not going to answer to you again anyway, it s like talking to a wall.

To be back on topic , mara is a safe choice in term of mdps.

[lefze]

And how much with a ini debuff ?
Weapon skill is a great stat imo. It give armor penetration and parry. So more damage and more defense at the same time.

I just look at your marauder. You have far less strenght than me. Far less weapon skill , far less init ,far less parry and far less wounds.

1021 str.
570 ws.
390 init
8k wounds
21 % crit
230 damage bonus
30 % parry
2 aa per sec

And iam only rr63 ,when you marau are 72 .
You just put all your rr into futile strike , and call it a day.

It s not a good move. As soon as you get hit by a ini debuff ,your going to be crit for a stupid amount.

Anyway , this discussion is just a non sense .
You just come here and says "trollolol your build is bad and you are bad"
I play my marauder in a different way than yours. But hey my build is probably bad ,hence this is why i can hit 200k damage for 20 kill in sc ?

I'm not going to answer to you again anyway, it s like talking to a wall.

To be back on topic , mara is a safe choice in term of mdps.

Don't look at his ini in a vacuum. He would have 50 from zealot, and possibly a BO statsteal aswell (and I'm aware they don't stack, no need to point it out ty). So 230ish ini is more or less where you should be unbuffed. Only against mSW comps is there any reason to go any higher, but the value is fine against that aswell really.

As for Futile Strikes, it's an amazing stat, really. I personally take at least FS3, and have on occasion even gone FS4+reduced chance to get crit lini just because it's so effective.

WS fades hard in comparison, it applies after armordebuffs, and as such equals almost no additional damage under Demostrikes+normal debuff. Especially the 120 from tactic is neglible, and as such the only real value from it is that you don't have to invest in Impetus. And at the cost of a tacticslot that's not really all that much value, is it.

Mara being a safe pick is true. It's a good secondary dps, and I feel it forces tank kills a lot as they can be rather tricky to down unless tanks are braindead.

[Kalt]

And how much with a ini debuff ?
Weapon skill is a great stat imo. It give armor penetration and parry. So more damage and more defense at the same time.

I just look at your marauder. You have far less strenght than me. Far less weapon skill , far less init ,far less parry and far less wounds.

1021 str.
570 ws.
390 init
8k wounds
21 % crit
230 damage bonus
30 % parry
2 aa per sec

And iam only rr63 ,when you marau are 72 .
You just put all your rr into futile strike , and call it a day.

It s not a good move. As soon as you get hit by a ini debuff ,your going to be crit for a stupid amount.

Anyway , this discussion is just a non sense .
You just come here and says "trollolol your build is bad and you are bad"
I play my marauder in a different way than yours. But hey my build is probably bad ,hence this is why i can hit 200k damage for 20 kill in sc ?

I'm not going to answer to you again anyway, it s like talking to a wall.

To be back on topic , mara is a safe choice in term of mdps.

Don't look at his ini in a vacuum. He would have 50 from zealot, and possibly a BO statsteal aswell (and I'm aware they don't stack, no need to point it out ty). So 230ish ini is more or less where you should be unbuffed. Only against mSW comps is there any reason to go any higher, but the value is fine against that aswell really.

As for Futile Strikes, it's an amazing stat, really. I personally take at least FS3, and have on occasion even gone FS4+reduced chance to get crit lini just because it's so effective.

WS fades hard in comparison, it applies after armordebuffs, and as such equals almost no additional damage under Demostrikes+normal debuff. Especially the 120 from tactic is neglible, and as such the only real value from it is that you don't have to invest in Impetus. And at the cost of a tacticslot that's not really all that much value, is it.

Mara being a safe pick is true. It's a good secondary dps, and I feel it forces tank kills a lot as they can be rather tricky to down unless tanks are braindead.

The scything talons tactic or the brut one is not 120 weapon skill.

It's 160 init AND 160 weapon skill for the savagery one , 160 init and 160 strenght for the brut one. So you have 320 stats in only one tactic.

so this tactic gives you : armor penetration , parry , reduce chance to be crit , and more chance to detect stealthed ennemy for the savagery one , and damage , reduce chance to be parried , stealth detection and reduce chance to be crit for the brut one.

It's two totaly different playstyle. Some people do not enjoy stance dance , some people like it. The fact is that there is not one marauder build to rule them all. There is a lot . And it depends on your own playstyle and your group comp.

[Dalgrimar]

I use crit, crit dmg, armor ignore and deadly clutch/flanking.
No need for WS when you have perma 50% armor ignore.
Its like the marauders on Badlands Live stacking WS on a warpforged mara.

[Kalt]

It's not perma 50 %

It doesn t affect your auto attack (and with proper gear you can have aa each two seconds ,and with a choppa and now a black orc you can go to each 1.4 s with +25 % damage thanks to the new bo buff) , doesn t affect thunderous blow (one of our hard hitter ability) , the snare ( who has respectable damage) , corruption (the toughness debuff)
So it's not as potent as you try to demonstrate.
But it's definetly a good tactic indeed.
I'm going to try you playstyle to give it a shoot and see if it suits me now ,but i remember back on live i was only playing stance dance build whith high rr and gear (sovereign/tyrant) mainly because this solve the stat issue.

[Unstoppable1776]

Dps Dok all the way.

Pure dps classes are the most selfish classes in the game and a waste of space.

Additionally you can never be in ICONIC #1 guild on the server if you play a dps class.

[Sulorie]

Dps Dok all the way.

Pure dps classes are the most selfish classes in the game and a waste of space.

Additionally you can never be in ICONIC #1 guild on the server if you play a dps class.

Aren't dps healers the most selfish builds in the game, as they most likely only heal themselves.