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The Сampaign is not rewarding.

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kleinbuchstabe
Posts: 25

Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#31 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:35 pm

Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:40 pm

Well... No. People are not doing it. Usually you have 400 vs 350 in one zone, so nothing happens. Then people start to leave for another zone leaving 50 players behind in the zone. So now you have the same thing in another zone and the populated zone from before is almost dead again. Then people switching to the third zone leaving the previous zones dead.

That's not tactic or strategy it's just the same in another zone. The blob is just too strong and people need to realize that blobbing in only one zone is bad.


What you forget here is a very simple thing: Spliting up only works when all 3 zones are open! Surprise! That situation is not always given! :o
Splitting up works fine when 3 Zones are open. With 2 Zones its difficult - or allready over with enough players on both sides, cause both zones are just full. With 1 Zone its not possible!
Look, sometimes a zone was locked by one side in the morning, and at primetime only 2 zones are left. Now dominating side splits up, locks another zone, and there you go: only one zone left. Splitting up possibility is over, city wont happen. What to do now? This situation is not rare.

So "use our brain, split and organize" is not the answer, and not the solution.
People are not that stupid and do these things allready, especialy when the called guilds working together.
So please dont act like its the stupidness of the players that citys dont happen. :ugeek:

I think a RvR quest is a good solution! We got killquests for gold allready. And in the past there have been quests to get conqueror emblems at the king!
Why not some kind of big quest like capture 5 keeps, join 2 forts, kill 500 players, something like that way.
For Reward you can choose a small amount of crests, like the choice between 3 royals, 5 invaders, 10 vanqs... just for example...
Its just a brainstorming, but i tink the dircetion is not that bad!

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Lithenir
Posts: 191

Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#32 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:51 pm

kleinbuchstabe wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:35 pm
Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:40 pm

Well... No. People are not doing it. Usually you have 400 vs 350 in one zone, so nothing happens. Then people start to leave for another zone leaving 50 players behind in the zone. So now you have the same thing in another zone and the populated zone from before is almost dead again. Then people switching to the third zone leaving the previous zones dead.

That's not tactic or strategy it's just the same in another zone. The blob is just too strong and people need to realize that blobbing in only one zone is bad.

I think a RvR quest is a good solution! We got killquests for gold allready. And in the past there have been quests to get conqueror emblems at the king!
Why not some kind of big quest like capture 5 keeps, join 2 forts, kill 500 players, something like that way.
For Reward you can choose a small amount of crests, like the choice between 3 royals, 5 invaders, 10 vanqs... just for example...
Its just a brainstorming, but i tink the dircetion is not that bad!
Tbh I just really don't like all the cry posts from people demanding an easy way for the best gear in-game. And these posts are really a thing the last couple of days.
Is it hard to get? Yes and it should be! Will I ever get Souv complete? Probably not because I have a job and live in EU.

I hope you don't mind if I cherry pick this from your posts since you kind of did it also. First of all, the "capture a keep"-quests aren't working, I doubt the suggested quest would work then.
Plus you already get Invader and royals from blue bags up for zone flips. Since everyone who opens up threads like this is "putting so much effort and energy and time in pushing cities and not get rewarded with city siege" you would assume that they get at least 1 or 2 bags a day. So they get invader or royals on a daily basis... I don't see how this can be unrewarding...

Jesden
Posts: 31

Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#33 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:02 pm

Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:51 pm
kleinbuchstabe wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:35 pm
Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:40 pm

Well... No. People are not doing it. Usually you have 400 vs 350 in one zone, so nothing happens. Then people start to leave for another zone leaving 50 players behind in the zone. So now you have the same thing in another zone and the populated zone from before is almost dead again. Then people switching to the third zone leaving the previous zones dead.

That's not tactic or strategy it's just the same in another zone. The blob is just too strong and people need to realize that blobbing in only one zone is bad.

I think a RvR quest is a good solution! We got killquests for gold allready. And in the past there have been quests to get conqueror emblems at the king!
Why not some kind of big quest like capture 5 keeps, join 2 forts, kill 500 players, something like that way.
For Reward you can choose a small amount of crests, like the choice between 3 royals, 5 invaders, 10 vanqs... just for example...
Its just a brainstorming, but i tink the dircetion is not that bad!
Tbh I just really don't like all the cry posts from people demanding an easy way for the best gear in-game. And these posts are really a thing the last couple of days.
Is it hard to get? Yes and it should be! Will I ever get Souv complete? Probably not because I have a job and live in EU.

I hope you don't mind if I cherry pick this from your posts since you kind of did it also. First of all, the "capture a keep"-quests aren't working, I doubt the suggested quest would work then.
Plus you already get Invader and royals from blue bags up for zone flips. Since everyone who opens up threads like this is "putting so much effort and energy and time in pushing cities and not get rewarded with city siege" you would assume that they get at least 1 or 2 bags a day. So they get invader or royals on a daily basis... I don't see how this can be unrewarding...
It's not difficult to get, it's time consuming. And that time consumption is artificially inflated due to the nature of when cities are happening.

User avatar
Lithenir
Posts: 191

Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#34 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:24 pm

Jesden wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:02 pm
Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:51 pm
kleinbuchstabe wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:35 pm



I think a RvR quest is a good solution! We got killquests for gold allready. And in the past there have been quests to get conqueror emblems at the king!
Why not some kind of big quest like capture 5 keeps, join 2 forts, kill 500 players, something like that way.
For Reward you can choose a small amount of crests, like the choice between 3 royals, 5 invaders, 10 vanqs... just for example...
Its just a brainstorming, but i tink the dircetion is not that bad!
Tbh I just really don't like all the cry posts from people demanding an easy way for the best gear in-game. And these posts are really a thing the last couple of days.
Is it hard to get? Yes and it should be! Will I ever get Souv complete? Probably not because I have a job and live in EU.

I hope you don't mind if I cherry pick this from your posts since you kind of did it also. First of all, the "capture a keep"-quests aren't working, I doubt the suggested quest would work then.
Plus you already get Invader and royals from blue bags up for zone flips. Since everyone who opens up threads like this is "putting so much effort and energy and time in pushing cities and not get rewarded with city siege" you would assume that they get at least 1 or 2 bags a day. So they get invader or royals on a daily basis... I don't see how this can be unrewarding...
It's not difficult to get, it's time consuming. And that time consumption is artificially inflated due to the nature of when cities are happening.
Yes it is time consuming and it should be because it's the best gear in this game.
I tell you what happens when the devs make it easier/faster to get royals.
After a short period of time everyone will have Souvereign. Then, the same kind of people who make posts like this will start making posts like "bring new gear and zones and add more dungeons, there is nothing to do in this game"

nat3s
Posts: 289

Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#35 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:50 pm

Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:45 pm
Spoiler:
nat3s wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 am
Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:12 am


Well I've seen it on live for years, the same campaign as it is now and people used tactic and strategies to get what they wanted. Back then people were smart enough to split forces and attack multiple zones the same time.

So when the campaign is still the same but people here tend to be in one zone only, leaving the other 2 dead which fault is it? Ofc it must be the campaigns fault because it is too hard to take zones with 600 players and I just want to be brain afk but want all the rewards... Well it isn't working that way.

Look you're wrong on all levels here. You'll see from my sig I'm in PNP which is one of the more organised EU Destro guilds on the server. We regularly coordinate our WB nights (3 nights a week) with the other big Destro EU guilds like TUP to push zones. The other night between the coordinated Destro guilds we had 10 WBs up and running with comms between leaders.... And still we couldn't reach a City. These are guilds that destroy the best Order has to offer at present. This sounds terrible so apologies, but PNP hasn't lost to a city to an Order guild in many months and we've faced the likes of Bombling and that WL AoE WB the players names from which I forget.

If PNP played during late US TZ I'm telling you we'd be farming daily cities as it's so much easier to reach a city during off peak hours with low pop.

Late US TZ doesn't get cities because they play better, they get them because defensive strength currently scales with more people online because a keep/fort main door funnel allow roughly 5 people per second to pass through no matter how many attackers you have - where keep/fort defender strength continues to scale with each additional player meaning those 5 people funnelling need to absorb more and more punishment. Around 200 defenders and things get really tough for the attackers.

What you're also missing is splitting zones helps you get a Fort.... BUT you still need to cap that fort, if defenders win a fort then the campaign resets. So at some point EU prime attackers need to break a 300+ person fort def.

The game either needs other ways to earn Sov which is equally fair to all timezones or some kind of way to address the problem of offensive strength not scaling with additionl players: perhaps have additional entrances to a fort/keep open up as the number of players in a zone increases.
Look since I am eu player myself I know you guys. And still I am not wrong.

If you have too many defenders split your forces and siege another zone at the same time. If you are as awesome as you think you should be able to hold most defenders in their keep so other people can take mostly undefended zones.... But wait for that to happen you would have to sacrifice potential rewards. Guess that option is out also...

And btw for a fort to have 300 defenders the attackers would need 400 players since fort defenders cap is at 75% of the attackers. The last forts I have seen had 240 attackers and 180 defenders.

Splitting forces is one tactic of many that the organised guilds are continually using to try to break the deadlock. You are pointing out the obvious.

If guilds are already doing the, not very mind-blowing and entirely obvious suggestions from your post, and still EU prime is not seeing cities, can you now accept that the problem is not the players, rather the system? It is definitely not the case that US TZ guilds are magically much more organised/skillful (good though they are).
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User avatar
kleinbuchstabe
Posts: 25

Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#36 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:10 pm

Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:51 pm

Tbh I just really don't like all the cry posts from people demanding an easy way for the best gear in-game. And these posts are really a thing the last couple of days.
Is it hard to get? Yes and it should be! Will I ever get Souv complete? Probably not because I have a job and live in EU.

what you dont get is: The set isnt that hard to get in itself. But during EU evening, its even hard to get just the possibility to get a single crest of it.
But like you said, this is fine to you. Obviously its not, to a very big player base. So if you dont give a damn about other players progress in game, ok, you made your point. But please stop argue with arguments wich arent some.
Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:51 pm
I hope you don't mind if I cherry pick this from your posts since you kind of did it also. First of all, the "capture a keep"-quests aren't working, I doubt the suggested quest would work then.
Plus you already get Invader and royals from blue bags up for zone flips. Since everyone who opens up threads like this is "putting so much effort and energy and time in pushing cities and not get rewarded with city siege" you would assume that they get at least 1 or 2 bags a day. So they get invader or royals on a daily basis... I don't see how this can be unrewarding...

Like i said - it was just some kind of brainstorming and not an end solution.
Btw Zone flipping is also rare during primetime. But for someone who participates citys and goes on with flipping zones from t2 until t4 after it, yes, that seems very easy too...

User avatar
Lithenir
Posts: 191

Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#37 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:12 pm

nat3s wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:50 pm
Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:45 pm
Spoiler:
nat3s wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 am



Look you're wrong on all levels here. You'll see from my sig I'm in PNP which is one of the more organised EU Destro guilds on the server. We regularly coordinate our WB nights (3 nights a week) with the other big Destro EU guilds like TUP to push zones. The other night between the coordinated Destro guilds we had 10 WBs up and running with comms between leaders.... And still we couldn't reach a City. These are guilds that destroy the best Order has to offer at present. This sounds terrible so apologies, but PNP hasn't lost to a city to an Order guild in many months and we've faced the likes of Bombling and that WL AoE WB the players names from which I forget.

If PNP played during late US TZ I'm telling you we'd be farming daily cities as it's so much easier to reach a city during off peak hours with low pop.

Late US TZ doesn't get cities because they play better, they get them because defensive strength currently scales with more people online because a keep/fort main door funnel allow roughly 5 people per second to pass through no matter how many attackers you have - where keep/fort defender strength continues to scale with each additional player meaning those 5 people funnelling need to absorb more and more punishment. Around 200 defenders and things get really tough for the attackers.

What you're also missing is splitting zones helps you get a Fort.... BUT you still need to cap that fort, if defenders win a fort then the campaign resets. So at some point EU prime attackers need to break a 300+ person fort def.

The game either needs other ways to earn Sov which is equally fair to all timezones or some kind of way to address the problem of offensive strength not scaling with additionl players: perhaps have additional entrances to a fort/keep open up as the number of players in a zone increases.
Look since I am eu player myself I know you guys. And still I am not wrong.

If you have too many defenders split your forces and siege another zone at the same time. If you are as awesome as you think you should be able to hold most defenders in their keep so other people can take mostly undefended zones.... But wait for that to happen you would have to sacrifice potential rewards. Guess that option is out also...

And btw for a fort to have 300 defenders the attackers would need 400 players since fort defenders cap is at 75% of the attackers. The last forts I have seen had 240 attackers and 180 defenders.

Splitting forces is one tactic of many that the organised guilds are continually using to try to break the deadlock. You are pointing out the obvious.

If guilds are already doing the, not very mind-blowing and entirely obvious suggestions from your post, and still EU prime is not seeing cities, can you now accept that the problem is not the players, rather the system? It is definitely not the case that US TZ guilds are magically much more organised/skillful (good though they are).
Is it really? Then why am I seeing the things I mentioned all the time...
I give you that there should be more ways to get into keeps other than postern and main gate. More things like catapults to get over the walls or cannons actually damaging the walls to break them.

But still the system is fine. You get invader and royals from zone locks also and as mentioned earlier it's about the best gear in the game. It shouldn't be too easy to get the best in the game.

Janner
Posts: 4

Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#38 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:49 pm

nat3s wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:50 pm
Lithenir wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:45 pm
Spoiler:
nat3s wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:56 am



Look you're wrong on all levels here. You'll see from my sig I'm in PNP which is one of the more organised EU Destro guilds on the server. We regularly coordinate our WB nights (3 nights a week) with the other big Destro EU guilds like TUP to push zones. The other night between the coordinated Destro guilds we had 10 WBs up and running with comms between leaders.... And still we couldn't reach a City. These are guilds that destroy the best Order has to offer at present. This sounds terrible so apologies, but PNP hasn't lost to a city to an Order guild in many months and we've faced the likes of Bombling and that WL AoE WB the players names from which I forget.

If PNP played during late US TZ I'm telling you we'd be farming daily cities as it's so much easier to reach a city during off peak hours with low pop.

Late US TZ doesn't get cities because they play better, they get them because defensive strength currently scales with more people online because a keep/fort main door funnel allow roughly 5 people per second to pass through no matter how many attackers you have - where keep/fort defender strength continues to scale with each additional player meaning those 5 people funnelling need to absorb more and more punishment. Around 200 defenders and things get really tough for the attackers.

What you're also missing is splitting zones helps you get a Fort.... BUT you still need to cap that fort, if defenders win a fort then the campaign resets. So at some point EU prime attackers need to break a 300+ person fort def.

The game either needs other ways to earn Sov which is equally fair to all timezones or some kind of way to address the problem of offensive strength not scaling with additionl players: perhaps have additional entrances to a fort/keep open up as the number of players in a zone increases.
Look since I am eu player myself I know you guys. And still I am not wrong.

If you have too many defenders split your forces and siege another zone at the same time. If you are as awesome as you think you should be able to hold most defenders in their keep so other people can take mostly undefended zones.... But wait for that to happen you would have to sacrifice potential rewards. Guess that option is out also...

And btw for a fort to have 300 defenders the attackers would need 400 players since fort defenders cap is at 75% of the attackers. The last forts I have seen had 240 attackers and 180 defenders.

Splitting forces is one tactic of many that the organised guilds are continually using to try to break the deadlock. You are pointing out the obvious.

If guilds are already doing the, not very mind-blowing and entirely obvious suggestions from your post, and still EU prime is not seeing cities, can you now accept that the problem is not the players, rather the system? It is definitely not the case that US TZ guilds are magically much more organised/skillful (good though they are).
Splitting forces may be an obvious tactic but its execution is tricky. You have to anticipate what the masses of low effort players are going to do who aren't under your control and plan accordingly. You also haveto take strategic risks. If you start a siege and midway through you see that there is a 99% of taking the keep, you might want to divert alot of people to starting a siege somewhere else, so much that you lower the chances of taking the first one by alot,to say 75%, but perhaps your chances of taking the second are 50%. The net result of that strategy is you gain .26 more keeps ( .99 versus 1.25). Of course the issue is that you may lose the first one or both; there is a significant chance of it. It doesn't mean the strategy is bad but most people would prefer not to take that kind of risk. I never see order do this.

By the way, I've been in city warbands in the last two months that have defeated ones with significant numbers of pnp. And bombling's group is not top tier. They have weak leadership, nonideal warband composition, and are insufficiently selective in the pugs they take. The best order city warbands are fenryl's (montague) and bolded's (knights of order).

-Hagger, Runepriest

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Martok
Posts: 1107
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Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#39 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:52 pm

doxifera wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:19 pm
The Campaign is not Rewarding

Yes, it is.

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Ninjagon
Posts: 170

Re: The Сampaign is not rewarding.

Post#40 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:06 pm

mytreds wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:26 pm
Maybe instead of being a leech, you could, I don’t know, organize and push cities when you are awake? Fascinating concept isn’t it?
Excellent answer. No need to say more :-)
Ninjagon - Bright Wizard. No destruction character. My warband build
Velmires, WP alt.
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