The Problem With City Queing

[Xuilkingoftheelves]

Queuing for City instances has in my and my guild's experiences over these last couple of weeks been a total disappointment. It does not feel optimized or working well at all. We Q as a six or twelve man with even composition every time yet odd number groups and solo players are getting into instances all the time. Out of the last seven cities that I have queued for with my guild, we have gotten into one instance. It seems like ever since the city queuing system was re optimized, city pops are a lot less frequent and now queuing for city is a total gamble as to whether you're going to get an instance or whether you're going to be sitting there for 30 minutes only to get nothing for all of the effort you put into progressing the campaign to city.

I have a suggestion. Once the city timer reaches 5 minutes, give players a choice to join an instance for city but with PvE objectives. Something like a public quest or some series of objectives which would need to be captured or something. I would suggest that you not be able to earn the same amount of Rewards that you could get from a city with players. I would also suggest that cities of this style would not give Renown in any way. The reason I believe this change should be made is because I don't think someone who has been trying hard all day to progress should get shafted like that. Lame and Un-fun

I strongly believe that if you spend a good part of the day playing in t4 and progressing your faction's campaign progress, you should be guaranteed a position in City. It is not fair in any way to have players who have been fighting hard all day long to get to city to have to sit outside and not be able to participate while solo queue players who just logged in are getting into instances

Which brings me to my next suggestion. Players that have been participating in open RvR and progressing the status of the campaign should have priority for cities. This contribution would be transferable to your other characters. That way you can play whatever character you want to be playing for open RvR, but then when it comes time for city then you can have that contribution pass on to whatever character needs City. This could also work for forts as well. The rewards you can get from open RvR are GENERALLY more desired for lower geared characters and usually people want to bring they're higher-level characters or characters that need Invader, Warlord, and Sovereign.

I'm curious to hear all of your thoughts on this. If you agree with me, tell me why. If you don't agree with me, tell me why you think the suggestions would be bad. Looking forward to your responses

[VindicoAtrum]

If you want guaranteed city play Order.

"Out of the last seven cities that I have queued for with my guild, we have gotten into one instance."

I suspect this is hyperbole or you're doing something wrong. I've missed ONE out of the past NINE cities I've queued. Between those queues I've been in 6 mans, 12/18, and a full warband. The uneven population distribution is not so extreme that missing 6 of 7 cities at queue stage is at all likely.

"queuing for city is a total gamble as to whether you're going to get an instance "

It's really not. In fact, it's more deterministic than ever, because we know the rules for instances at each time stage.

Initially, only 24v24 happens, and they get extra bags for bothering to form 24 man warbands. Since Order usually don't form as many 24 man groups this often leaves one or two destro warbands without an instance at this stage. Then, as the timer decreases the match criteria gets less strict. Leftover 24s will get matched against 18+6, 18+1+1+1+1+1+1 etc, 12+12, 12+6+6 etc. Then remaining 6/12/18s are thrown together to form more instances, filling in with solos where necessary.

What you queue is now as important as when you queue.

[Deinara]

If you want guaranteed city play Order

Are you seriously recommending this? So when Order doesn't get queue pop, you recommend to go back to Destro ?

I suspect this is hyperbole or you're doing something wrong. I've missed ONE out of the past NINE cities I've queued. Between those queues I've been in 6 mans, 12/18, and a full warband. The uneven population distribution is not so extreme that missing 6 of 7 cities at queue stage is at all likely.

Imagine that instead of 1, just by pure bad luck, you would have missed two more, so you would have missed 1/3, wouldn't you like to have an alternative where you can at least get some royals given the effort you have put on pushing for city?

I am new on the game, and I love it so much, but given that cities are the end game, it sucks that you get denied the end game without an alternative. I very much like the proposition of this post and it is my understanding that something similar was on live.

See you on the Maw.

[arialswg]

"I suspect this is hyperbole or you're doing something wrong. I've missed ONE out of the past NINE cities I've queued. Between those queues I've been in 6 mans, 12/18, and a full warband. The uneven population distribution is not so extreme that missing 6 of 7 cities at queue stage is at all likely."

I can't speak for the last seven instances that he queued for but I can speak for the last 4 as we were in the same wb and this isn't hyperbole. For 3 of the cities we were queued as a 2-2-2 12 man wb, insta queued and did not get a pop. For last night's 5 star, we decided that perhaps we would have better luck queuing as a 6 man, again a 2-2-2 set up and insta queue as soon as the queue opened and we got nothing. Meanwhile, I asked a friend of mine last night if they got a pop and they did with an 11 man group. How does that make sense? Even law of averages would state that we should have gotten at least 1 pop out of 4. The new queue system is really encouraging people to either queue solo, or as you say, switch sides to Order. Incidently, I also queued on Order this week as a 2 man group....insta queue, also didn't get a pop....so its not a guarantee.

I think having an alternative to non pop would be preferable to the frustration that players are going to feel if they can't complete their end game gear. I'm sure we're not the only ones experiencing this

[Zhentarim]

I agree that 6-12 mans get punished for making that effort often being thrown together with solo queuers which often means you will lose. I dont agree with making city a pve-instance just to guarantee people who have played all day to get an instance. City siege should be against players and not getting an instance is just the cost you have to pay for playing the overpopulated realm. It would be nice with a system that make sure city-loggers get last in queue so the people that put the effort in gets to be first in but I dont agree you should be able to log out and pick your alt for that. It should be tied to the character you been fighting with.

[Ostabenny]

The other side of this coin is that if you ARE forming a full wb, you are guaranteed a good fight which is way way better. Our cities have been excellent since this change.

I know people want to queue small, but if you are just going to be matched with randoms anyway, is there a reason not to group up into full wb beforehand?

Is it just not enough time? Maybe the time between fort and city needs to be slightly extended?

[Foltestik]

i que always as 6 man on order we que instanly...
most time end in 2 or 3rd instance and it was always like mix of 6 and 12 man on both side (do like 12 citys on new system)

can say it works pretty good

[Hugatsaga]

After the optimization change Ive queued city 4 times iirc and gotten in once. I queued as destro every time. Most of my friends play usually on destro so switching sides would mean id have to stop playing with them. Switching faction would also mean that i'd have to stop playing the class I like. Currently it feels like endgame content and gear are locked behind pretty much impassable barrier. Not very good system if you ask me.

[Nosun]

I no longer player destro side until the pop imbalance gets better and its has nothing to do with city but i totally agree that the players on destro that pushed the citys thru the campaign not getting a city because of city loggers is pretty lame. I also agree that the often 30 to 35 minute wait just for city to start is pretty terrible.

[nebelwerfer]

Que system should put together 6+18, 12+12, 6+6+6+6 etc to create as many organized instances as possible, not JUST looking at 24v24 as i think it is right now.

For people refusing to join a group or anything, they shouldn't get to do city.. They could do the city related scenarios and get scraps (royal shards) for it

Also the downtime between the stages in city is too long, needs .surrender / .readycheck to start the stage faster !!

These things would improve city by a bit imo