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Skirmish SW need rework.

Structured balance proposals should be posted here. Posts in this section will be taken into account during class balance reviews.
Sever1n
Posts: 182

Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#1 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 4:02 pm

Most picked by beginners order class for years was in place where org warband don't even want to use it in its comp. We asked for changes a long time ago, but all these changes with recent patches make me as sw main feel like people who make them don't understand what problems we have and why. I'll try to explain from my perspective as SW who played it in different specs, gear, places and really want this class to be in a solid spot as order dps that war band leaders want to use.

The main spec for WB play is skirmish. It does mainly phys dmg and has basic rotation from where it makes its damage to do AOE pressure, where all these skills have unique way they work. And unique problems with them
1. Broad head arrow - Main dot with 65ft radius phys damage (got an invisible nerf when lost 1k dmg potential after nerf, but now can be used in 1 gcd). Have no real problems.
2. Flame arrrow - copy of broad head but have ELEMENTAL damage and 10ft radius without Vengeful mech. Second DOT in rotation that boosts pressure on the enemy. Damage type is bad for us if we don't have Knight in wb, but we 99% have one with elemental shreds. Have 2 tactics for it, but we don't have a slot for them. The main problem is that it requires Vengeful mechanics to have 20 ft radius and suck 1 gcd from Vengeful barrage moral drain spam.
3. Lileath arrow - 0.5 sec 65ft small width, but a long and hard hitting shot that is good for funneling. 0.5 part is weird because it doesn't fully utilize its 5sec cooldown with winds, and usually it is never used with wind because barrage spam with veng is priority.
4. Barrage - Uniq skill with 40ft radius big spread and instacast. Have uniq synergy with Vengeful and is one of the main mechanics why SW having place in WB - 10sec of mass morale drain every 30sec of cd on Veng. And first one with the biggest issues. First, its range is 40ft. It's a range vere u start get aoe damage, instapulls from choppas, procs of covenant of celerity. Basically this range means that when u get a pop of wind and wants to start a morale drain u will be instantly sucked and slowed, lose your time and fk up your barrage spam. The second part is a HUGE ap cost of 44 and+25% from steady aim self buff. Usually, you can't even spam 10 of them because you will be drained immediately. And the 3rd worst part of it U ALWAYS NEED SM WITH WIND FOR YOUR CLASS EVEN TO WORK, AND THAT SUCK. We also want to play scenarios/rvr and we don't always have pocket sm 24/7. Class should be working fine, even solo.
5. Spiral arrow - the least wanted skill to be used in rotation that has a 1 sec cast and used to fill the time with cooldowns on other skills. Have no problems.

Tactics. 4 slots for them. Sw have a ton of interesting options, but sadly, they are very limited and outshine by core ones, so you don't have options for others.
1. Instinctive aim. Core. Just too big a stat boost to ignore.
2. Split arrows. Without it, Skirm SW can't deal mass dmg with broad and spiral.
3. Replenishing/Clever recovery. Yes AP tactics. The AP starve of skirm sw IS THAT HIGH that u need to fix it with tactics if u want to avoid problems with rotations.
4. The last tactic that finally gives you a choice. Powerful draw for penetration. Bullseye for more crit, but risky. And Pierce defenses for wb utility. Usually warband ask for a pierce.

The problem is with #3. All dps classes in game have normal rotation that can be spammed and fixed by ap boost from other sources. Not SW. The AP starve is insane and blocks you from picking 1 more dps tactic that you should have.

Gear.
There are MAIN 2 options with gear for skirm. Crit patch with sov ant utility path with warlord bonuses. There is an option with mass slow from melee SW SOV gear, but you will never use it.
#1 For crit its 5 off sov+4tiumphant. Tnx to change now, we need a ranked ring to get that 130 ws proc that will really boost our penetration. And set bonuses will give you Wounds a lot of passive crit and tons of slots for WS talis. It copies the options that usually other WB DPS classes take. IT'S A MAIN PATH OF MAKING DPS AND A NORMAL DPS SHOULD.
#2 The warlord bullshit. Never was a fan, but tnx to 7 piece bonuses with passive you have ARMORSHRED on all your mass attacks. That second part why warband may consider taking 1 SW (but it would be ideal to kick it in overflow). It DON'T HAVE 2хWounds, crit, and have a lower armor that is very crucial for SW and his synergy. U have like 7k Wound in it, or u spend talis slots or you will be dead in 1 morale drop.

Healthy DPS will choose option 1. But WE ARE ALWAYS FORCED TO USE #2 TO BE SUPPORT DPS SLAVES FOR OUR WB BECAUSE THEY DON'T EVENT BELIEVE THAT SW CAN DO THE SAME DMG OUTPUT AS REAL DPS.

Utility Part.
No AOE detaunt and no antisnare. When you fight with constant chaotic missposition tools and permanent snare of covenant of cancerity.
Just check the tools Squig has for defending hiss ass. And now on SW, understand that we have only 1 option - go melee jump somewhere back (if you are lucky) and pray. We don't have any self-defense tools to defend ourselves, except jumping. How long will you jump from meat grinder in missposition from pull with light armor and 7k HP? It will be jump in grave. While even slay can detaunt/antisnare/charge to needed spot.

MORALE
For Normal DPS classes, 1st morale is def 2 for morale drop. For sw we have NOTHING useful for the m1 slot in terms of mass fight. And our second morale is ambush - UTILITY MORALE and 3rd reason why WB wanted 1 sw in it. It was good for catch, but it got nerfed to ground and outshined by SM jump now. But MOST IMPORTANT IT'S NOT A MORALE DROP BUTTON. So from the two ultra-useful options that normal dps have, we have ZERO. Don't even start about concealment and ST Sorks cults.

This was written for devs eyes and i have a ton of feedback on other specs of SW and its problems. And after path butchering of them they are literally worst class in game. And thats a class that order noobs create in first place. I am very frustrated and tired of state of sw for years and mostly that order side and devs dont even care. Hope time i spend for this ill be not wasted.

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Uchoo
Posts: 404

Re: Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#2 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 7:39 pm

DPS Slaves? Don't do damage? Not sure where that came from.

Here's an Eataine where I was on Shad for only a portion of the kills, yet was #4 in zone damage overall, alongside other Shadow Warriors.

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... e32d22aedf

The class does have problems and some inefficiencies, though.
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Tetzou
Posts: 19

Re: Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#3 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:21 pm

Yes? You zerged surfed and did great im sure. Had a good day. Try that with a anything coordinated and they say ”no”.
You got 0 utility and weak dmg . Get lost and solo.

Tetzou
Posts: 19

Re: Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#4 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:32 pm

Tetzou wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:21 pm Yes? You zerged surfed and did great im sure. Had a good day. Try that with a anything coordinated and they say ”no”.
You got 0 utility and weak dmg . Get lost and solo.
Devs always inforcing making premades.

Sw has no part in premades atm, sc nor wbs.

lemao
Posts: 297

Re: Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#5 » Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:01 pm

Tetzou wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:32 pm
Tetzou wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 9:21 pm Yes? You zerged surfed and did great im sure. Had a good day. Try that with a anything coordinated and they say ”no”.
You got 0 utility and weak dmg . Get lost and solo.
Devs always inforcing making premades.

Sw has no part in premades atm, sc nor wbs.
Wrong, they do acually. Fester sw is ompletely fine for scs, so is skyrmisch for wb

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Uchoo
Posts: 404

Re: Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#6 » Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:13 am


Click here to watch on YouTube

Click here to watch on YouTube

Click here to watch on YouTube

Just a few examples of coordinated use of Skirmish. It is quite viable but there are things to know to get good value out of it. There are very good reasons why SW is a very strong pick for a dps spot.

Scout, Skirm and hybrid with Fell the Weak are all very viable Single Target specs as well for like 6-mans, etc.
"They're gonna die if we kill them" - Klev on strategy

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Tetzou
Posts: 19

Re: Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#7 » Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:48 am

Uchoo wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:13 am
Click here to watch on YouTube

Click here to watch on YouTube

Click here to watch on YouTube

Just a few examples of coordinated use of Skirmish. It is quite viable but there are things to know to get good value out of it. There are very good reasons why SW is a very strong pick for a dps spot.

Scout, Skirm and hybrid with Fell the Weak are all very viable Single Target specs as well for like 6-mans, etc.
1st video . Reg fort def, any class can do that dmg and better. 2nd vid, chasing and killing soloers 3vs1…
Stopped watching , Sw isnt a bad class, but id love some more group contribution and utility.
Example!!
Its the only range class ingame with a hard CC that isnt 80-100 feet. 65feet knockdown is so overnerfed and flawed.

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Uchoo
Posts: 404

Re: Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#8 » Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:04 am

The first video I was both top damage and kills in the fort.

The second video is our 19 man with multiple Skirmish Shadow Warriors vs an organized warband. The only "soloer" was the witch elf at the end.

I'm not sure why you're attacking facts, it doesn't help you, just present your case.

Could Shadow Warrior use some improvements? Yes.

Is Skirmish a viable spec in coordinated play? Yes.
"They're gonna die if we kill them" - Klev on strategy

RoR Memes
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Check out my Twitter, I talk about RoR & Games
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agemennon675
Posts: 504

Re: Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#9 » Sun Mar 03, 2024 11:02 am

Uchoo wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:04 am The first video I was both top damage and kills in the fort.

The second video is our 19 man with multiple Skirmish Shadow Warriors vs an organized warband. The only "soloer" was the witch elf at the end.

I'm not sure why you're attacking facts, it doesn't help you, just present your case.

Could Shadow Warrior use some improvements? Yes.

Is Skirmish a viable spec in coordinated play? Yes.
What you are missing here is any other dps in an organised environment can achieve better results
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Phantasm
Posts: 683

Re: Skirmish SW need rework.

Post#10 » Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:42 pm

Problem with threads like this is that anyone can say anything about any topic and it will have same value to reader as someone who master multiple classes as Uchoo.

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