Order fabled inability to compete

[Kabuterimonga]

just make all classes playable by both sides and call it done.

dats da wae

[Onemantankwall]

Want true rvr balance? Nerf lag... Lag op af even 6-7 bws stands no chance!

Lag for the lag god, dcs for the disconnect throne!!!

Oneman out!

[Karast]

Spoiler:

Now the funny thing is, Fluff posted another video of his warband action, from yesterday;
what we can conclude from this video found here - viewtopic.php?f=54&t=27979&p=335824#p335824

a)
you do not use HOLD THE LINE, which is something any normal warband tank would do to reduce enemy damage
instead, you choose to complain about BWs doing dmg, against which you could use HTL, but don't bother to

b) your Warband organization
2 maras, if they doing their task properly, will drain enough many BWs to ensure their M2 drop fails to reach critical mass or delay M2 drop by 10-20 sec, which allows Destro meanwhile to gather morale drop and win fight
3 shamans, when 1 is already too much
1 zealot, when preferably you would have 4 to give each party Ap, +25% heals and +1k armor
1 Squig, which doesn't do jackshit because no AOE spammer, and BadGas is countered by proper Order wb with 4 SMs
3 Sorcs, too little, too little bomb dmg having seen yesterdays killspam - either ensure they are all running proper AoE spec or lecture them about getting more dmg + kills, preferably you would run 4-6 Sorcs
0 dps Zealot, a class that would debuff enemy Corp and Armor resis (so your WE, SH, Maras would be like warm knives slicing through butter + increased tank dmg pressure), and so that your Sorcs corp dmg output increases massive when combined with BO corp debuff
While I love my WE, the class itself have 0 WB utility and dmg is far below Sorc dps, so no need to run those in WB.

c)
Now instead of fixing your own personal gameplay and playing like a tank should in warband, helping counter against BW dmg by proper HTL use...
Or instead of running a properly organized WB that utilized every trick and benefit known to Destro when it comes to butchering a BW heavy Order warband...
Your strategy to counter BW is to get them nerfed - that is the only viable dps class Order has for WB (Engi + Slayer are utility picks and cannot compete for DPS spots).
The alternative would be to "git gud" like Destro guilds have done in past giving them challenges but good chances of victory against organized BW-heavy Order guilds (Phalanx, TUP etc), but apparently that would be harder than to post your 7th "please let us talk about the problematic BWs killing me" nerf-BW thread.


As someone who plays both sides, with over dozen T4 chars, I have to say life on Destro is far easier when it comes to warbands, you are not required to run high Sorc number but can add classes like Magus or Mara or even a Choppa freely to the mix, and still have good chances of beating organized enemies.
And also, I would like to play non-BW classes in Order warbands, like my WL (RIP AOE spec) or maybe even my WH or Slayer - but as balance currently is and probably will be forever, it's recommended to not run less than 6-7 BWs for an organized Order wb (+ token Engi).


tdlr; pls use HTL

You make some good points but you miss a big thing I think.

If you want the view point of an order WB leader that plays in and out all the time the problem in their comp really is lack of zealot punt.

There is no counter for it. It completely shuts down keep assaults / defense and hunkering down in defensive positions. And whether you run AoE or Melee bomb on order all it takes 1-2 punt zealots to break your front line and give a sharp destro WB the time it needs to break you in a more 1 on 1 fight. You can try to focus the zealot, but if they hang close you won't do much without a hard ST ranged assist, which you won't have will full BW comp. Like when TUP came at us in Praag yesterday in the tunnel, or when a sneaky zealot used the zealot punt through the wall to disrupt the good funnel position. Order has to sit farther back off the door or you get chain punted through the wall when destro push in.

If you want to be successful with a destro WB get 2 punt zealots, and train them up. It will give you a huge advantage in every fight since it breaks front-line HTL / DPS, screws movement, and interrupts healers. If you try to pull dps off to focus them down you lose out on AoE, and they can just go tanky or hide inside.

If you are destro get zealot punts. That's all there is to it atm. Not a damn thing order can do about it unless if you are lucky enough to start the fight in the perfect situation, which rarely happens.

[wonshot]

Balanceteam did that, not any destro guild.

Fabricating your own myth again I see

How do you even dare question if I know why the people I used to play with stopped? like you know better. Get over yourself mr dwarf, It shouldnt take much.

Btw ive been spending my RoR vacation days visiting santa and looking for Nessy.
But on a serious note, if you honestly belive we stopped playing because there was too many or good guilds to fight you are the one fabricating myths, since we were all about fighting and not stand in warcamps taking pictures of formations.

[Fey]

You pleople really should try a racial WB. You might have some fun, or continue another wtf seriously thread.

[Nidwin]

If you want to be successful with a destro WB get 2 punt zealots, and train them up.

There's a future for you Laurentz. Don't give up on your Zeal yet as order has all the answers you were looking for.

This thread is getting fascinating, least to say.

[Einherja]

Nerf the Balanceteam!

[mubbl]

Spoiler:

Ghost of D&D in this thread? I thought NRM beat last signs of life from you.

Balanceteam did that, not any destro guild.

You can only play BW comp for so long till you fall asleep

NRM did improve nicely back, and succesfully recruited, when that video was recorded (same week as we had BW M2 nerfed and aoe WL removed)

Apart from that, you know how things went down in the lakes

#Edit Also your comment about us zerging with the Wedsday handholders is far from true. We played Tuesdays and Thursdays, to avoid that disgusting behavior of adding more numbers when losing evennumbers. Sure we lost fights outnumbered or evennumbers, but didnt coop with any of the other guilds (same cant be said for the guild you shamelessly try to advertice with your post. You barely did anything meaningful on your own)

came with a knife to a gun fight....you did it cause of not enough possible dps, which was/is not ture and we all know possible dps>then possiblity to kill....xD

you should take wam as example for dedication, but not in writing (text walls)

[Xergon]

Want true rvr balance? Nerf lag... Lag op af even 6-7 bws stands no chance!

Lag for the lag god, dcs for the disconnect throne!!!

Oneman out!

Yest HP it was 180 order vs 100 destro, then in Praag 120 destro vs 100 order, and Reikland 120 destro vs 80 order, good server performance, no slide show or anything like that, only few fps drops but thats on client side. So, anything Natherul tested/implemented working so far, hope to test more on Wednesday.

Nerf the Balanceteam!

What team lol.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Now the funny thing is, Fluff posted another video of his warband action, from yesterday;
what we can conclude from this video found here - viewtopic.php?f=54&t=27979&p=335824#p335824

a)
you do not use HOLD THE LINE, which is something any normal warband tank would do to reduce enemy damage
instead, you choose to complain about BWs doing dmg, against which you could use HTL, but don't bother to

b) your Warband organization
2 maras, if they doing their task properly, will drain enough many BWs to ensure their M2 drop fails to reach critical mass or delay M2 drop by 10-20 sec, which allows Destro meanwhile to gather morale drop and win fight
3 shamans, when 1 is already too much
1 zealot, when preferably you would have 4 to give each party Ap, +25% heals and +1k armor
1 Squig, which doesn't do jackshit because no AOE spammer, and BadGas is countered by proper Order wb with 4 SMs
3 Sorcs, too little, too little bomb dmg having seen yesterdays killspam - either ensure they are all running proper AoE spec or lecture them about getting more dmg + kills, preferably you would run 4-6 Sorcs
0 dps Zealot, a class that would debuff enemy Corp and Armor resis (so your WE, SH, Maras would be like warm knives slicing through butter + increased tank dmg pressure), and so that your Sorcs corp dmg output increases massive when combined with BO corp debuff
While I love my WE, the class itself have 0 WB utility and dmg is far below Sorc dps, so no need to run those in WB.

c)
Now instead of fixing your own personal gameplay and playing like a tank should in warband, helping counter against BW dmg by proper HTL use...
Or instead of running a properly organized WB that utilized every trick and benefit known to Destro when it comes to butchering a BW heavy Order warband...
Your strategy to counter BW is to get them nerfed - that is the only viable dps class Order has for WB (Engi + Slayer are utility picks and cannot compete for DPS spots).
The alternative would be to "git gud" like Destro guilds have done in past giving them challenges but good chances of victory against organized BW-heavy Order guilds (Phalanx, TUP etc), but apparently that would be harder than to post your 7th "please let us talk about the problematic BWs killing me" nerf-BW thread.


As someone who plays both sides, with over dozen T4 chars, I have to say life on Destro is far easier when it comes to warbands, you are not required to run high Sorc number but can add classes like Magus or Mara or even a Choppa freely to the mix, and still have good chances of beating organized enemies.
And also, I would like to play non-BW classes in Order warbands, like my WL (RIP AOE spec) or maybe even my WH or Slayer - but as balance currently is and probably will be forever, it's recommended to not run less than 6-7 BWs for an organized Order wb (+ token Engi).


tdlr; pls use HTL

You make some good points but you miss a big thing I think.

If you want the view point of an order WB leader that plays in and out all the time the problem in their comp really is lack of zealot punt.

There is no counter for it. It completely shuts down keep assaults / defense and hunkering down in defensive positions. And whether you run AoE or Melee bomb on order all it takes 1-2 punt zealots to break your front line and give a sharp destro WB the time it needs to break you in a more 1 on 1 fight. You can try to focus the zealot, but if they hang close you won't do much without a hard ST ranged assist, which you won't have will full BW comp. Like when TUP came at us in Praag yesterday in the tunnel, or when a sneaky zealot used the zealot punt through the wall to disrupt the good funnel position. Order has to sit farther back off the door or you get chain punted through the wall when destro push in.

Yes, we agree that zealot AoE punt is cancer, and if used properly it can decide battle very quickly, and there should be something on Order to either counter that or mirror that, because Group Rez on RP is a freaking joke if i may say that (it's like you want your team to die, so you can selfrez then rez them so they can wipe again...).
But, about keep defense actually deeper defense at bottom pillars is way better than standing in choke point, but to execute it u need to have proper dmg (BW) that will melt anything comes through. Order was be able to pull some destro couple times but didnt killed anything of that pull (lack raw dmg - BW). So destro simply sit outside build m4 and push with it, end of story - thats how breaking funnel defense should look like.

[Nidwin]

Wind of Insanity, for the ones wondering what that Zealot aoe punt is.

Not judging, just clarifying as even I had to wait for Xergon's runepriest group resurection skill comparaison