Sounds like an argument stemming from a solo and/or unorganised environment. A White Lion can kill 3/4 people solo? Well so can a Magus, or a DPS AM. Has no bearing on their potency within a group/WB environment, and balance is done around group+ encounters.mika9713 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:53 am Hello and welcome back
I join for the WL it is more than time to do something, is it normal that a WL can tank much more than a tank and do as much deguat? I play fury, I spend a lot of time trying to mix stuff, ect to try at least to finish a wl is impossible, it spoils the pleasure of playing and cut any desire, a WL can kill 3- 4 people in a row and he leaves barely alive, there is a big problem with the class.
Reintroductions and reflections.
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- peterthepan3
- Posts: 6509
Re: Reintroductions and reflections.
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Re: Reintroductions and reflections.
You're using this wrong.. Somalia is comparable in the sense that the people in charge can do & change things out of their own will - which is not necessarily the will of the majority.
Regarding balance, he is arguing that RoR should be balanced to 1.4.8 to THEN be balanced into something else (mildly or harshly). I've also said something about this earlier on this thread, read below:
Spoiler:
Explain to us how it makes any sense to you to balance (change values and mechanics) of some class and/or skills when some of them are not even working properly? Wouldn't it make sense to first fix all of the broken skills to then apply change to them? Maybe some of the broken skills are part of the issue regarding some specs unavailability?
If the task was up to me, before I'd even think in anything balance-wise I'd first work into fixing every single skill & tactic in the game and then make a huge spreadsheet in which shows what were the AoR values and what are the current RoR values. Anyway, you get the idea hopefully.
Martyr's Square: Sync & Nerfedbuttons - enigma
Martyr's Square: Dureal & Method - Disrespect/It's Orz again
Badlands: Dureal & Alatheus - Exo
Karak-Norn: Sejanus - Blitz/Elementz
Martyr's Square: Dureal & Method - Disrespect/It's Orz again
Badlands: Dureal & Alatheus - Exo
Karak-Norn: Sejanus - Blitz/Elementz
- GodlessCrom
- Suspended
- Posts: 1297
Re: Reintroductions and reflections.
The Somalia metaphor was off, but Hao's suggestions weren't bad IMO. Nor did he actually say "balance to 1.4.8."
Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king!
Re: Reintroductions and reflections.
Equally, a cynical person would suggest that given the amount of time required to fix every single ability bug, get the endgame sorted, etc., the project could die before anything were ever changed from 1.4.8. An especially cynical person might suggest that that would suit certain people just fine.
This post, and reconciliation, has limits. The problem has been that players have been talked down to, treated badly and occasionally banned on spurious grounds. I did not intend whatsoever that this should be used as a springboard to suggest or persuade the team that they need to surrender their agency completely - because that's a mug's game. We are still the ones putting the work in - the work that is such an obstacle that, I must repeat, our work had to be stolen for a competitor to us to actually arise - and during my year out, it was very much central in my mind that I did not benefit whatsoever in my personal life from what I did on this project. We are not going to the opposite extreme, which is that the community (or the elite of the community) run the project.
The team will listen to the best way to sail the ship to its intended destination. The team will not accept sailing to a different destination entirely.
This post, and reconciliation, has limits. The problem has been that players have been talked down to, treated badly and occasionally banned on spurious grounds. I did not intend whatsoever that this should be used as a springboard to suggest or persuade the team that they need to surrender their agency completely - because that's a mug's game. We are still the ones putting the work in - the work that is such an obstacle that, I must repeat, our work had to be stolen for a competitor to us to actually arise - and during my year out, it was very much central in my mind that I did not benefit whatsoever in my personal life from what I did on this project. We are not going to the opposite extreme, which is that the community (or the elite of the community) run the project.
The team will listen to the best way to sail the ship to its intended destination. The team will not accept sailing to a different destination entirely.
Re: Reintroductions and reflections.
Azarael wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:54 pm Equally, a cynical person would suggest that given the amount of time required to fix every single ability bug, get the endgame sorted, etc., the project could die before anything were ever changed from 1.4.8. An especially cynical person might suggest that that would suit certain people just fine.
This post, and reconciliation, has limits. The problem has been that players have been talked down to, treated badly and occasionally banned on spurious grounds. I did not intend whatsoever that this should be used as a springboard to suggest or persuade the team that they need to surrender their agency. We are not going to the opposite extreme, which is that the community (or the elite of the community) run the project.
I agree with you there when you also mention to get the endgame sorted, since I'm guessing its a major time consuming task, taking into account how long we've had T4 here in RoR but not city of fortresses.
But I don't think its the same for class skills & tactics - Its only logical to assume that the same amount of work & time that it takes to change and edit skills and tactics - it should also take to test them and see if their current value and mechanics are working properly, and if not - fix them (bug tracker should also cut this time since players are reporting non working stuff anyway). At the very least, a very similar time consuming task anyway.. I could be completely mistaken of course since I can't see from an inside point of view, but in this instance I don't think I am.
A small example that comes to mind was when my guild group was testing ways to counter the proc meta back in the day, specifically against BW buffs, for that we tested the Save me Hide skill from BO, which if my memory serves right, it should grant some magical protection. After some tests we concluded that it wasn't working properly and most importantly not affecting the damage done by the buff's proc, so we made a report in the bug tracker.. I haven't checked or even played this game in 2 years, but quite honestly I wouldn't be surprised its still not working as it properly should. In this example it directly affects how people could potentially help finding a work around against the proc meta etc.
Martyr's Square: Sync & Nerfedbuttons - enigma
Martyr's Square: Dureal & Method - Disrespect/It's Orz again
Badlands: Dureal & Alatheus - Exo
Karak-Norn: Sejanus - Blitz/Elementz
Martyr's Square: Dureal & Method - Disrespect/It's Orz again
Badlands: Dureal & Alatheus - Exo
Karak-Norn: Sejanus - Blitz/Elementz
Re: Reintroductions and reflections.
That's fine and quite honestly what I expect anyway.
But what is the intended destination?
Regarding balance - I believe it is already a step in the right direction when you say what is your current vision of the class before talking actual changes. I should add you should also put what should be the intended strength and weakness of each class/spec too - that's a suggestion.
Regarding the endgame - As I heard the next steps will be into fortresses and city sieges. A few discussion points comes to mind that would be nice to have transparency and dialogue since now, so nothing comes as a surprise for the community:
How do you envision to deal with issues we had back in live, such as people entering and leaving instances trying only to find empty ones?
How do you plan to deal when whole warband premades ends up fighting pugs?
People will obviously be doing this end-game content for the reward, in that example, was the sovereign gear, I believe its common knowledge (taking into account current affairs) that the gear stats will be toned down to match current game play, but how about set bonus abilities? Will they be removed or kept?
Its obviously not necessary to try and find an answer to everything now, especially since you've probably not even worked towards that end yet, but would be good to let people know before hand what would be the intended direction & changes comparable to live (I'm guessing live is the "different destination entirely" you were talking about, or perhaps not?).
Martyr's Square: Sync & Nerfedbuttons - enigma
Martyr's Square: Dureal & Method - Disrespect/It's Orz again
Badlands: Dureal & Alatheus - Exo
Karak-Norn: Sejanus - Blitz/Elementz
Martyr's Square: Dureal & Method - Disrespect/It's Orz again
Badlands: Dureal & Alatheus - Exo
Karak-Norn: Sejanus - Blitz/Elementz
Re: Reintroductions and reflections.
I plan to do what I always do, which is take it as it comes. Right now I'm far more concerned about the present issues, plus the destabilization that will be caused if Invader level gear and above is plonked in without a stabilizer mechanic. I had hoped that issue wouldn't rear its disgusting head until later. I was wrong.
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Re: Reintroductions and reflections.
Is it? If instead of Somalia he would've used the Galactic Empire from Star Wars would it be more absurd or less absurd? Would've made more sense that instead of Somalia he would've used the example of another private project of a discontinued game that only he knows about? So that you could question whether that project really exists or not?
Bottom line is, you're just trying to pick into one thing he used to format his argument (its not the base of his argument) and is using to dismiss all of his points, aka Cherry picking. He could've rephrased the whole thing without the Somalia part anyway.
GodlessCrom wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:46 pmThe Somalia metaphor was off, but Hao's suggestions weren't bad IMO. Nor did he actually say "balance to 1.4.8."
See? this guy gets it.
As to why you think millennials are funny, why do you think that? Quite honestly I can't really see much difference - most people just seem "funny" (as in stupid, in this case) to me most of the time, regardless of age in which one was born.
Martyr's Square: Sync & Nerfedbuttons - enigma
Martyr's Square: Dureal & Method - Disrespect/It's Orz again
Badlands: Dureal & Alatheus - Exo
Karak-Norn: Sejanus - Blitz/Elementz
Martyr's Square: Dureal & Method - Disrespect/It's Orz again
Badlands: Dureal & Alatheus - Exo
Karak-Norn: Sejanus - Blitz/Elementz
Re: Reintroductions and reflections.
I only read:Azarael wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:41 pm I plan to do what I always do, which is take it as it comes. Right now I'm far more concerned about the present issues, plus the destabilization that will be caused if Invader level gear and above is plonked in without a stabilizer mechanic. I had hoped that issue wouldn't rear its disgusting head until later. I was wrong.
Fortresses and invader is right around the corner!
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