Changelog 31.01.2016

[covenn]

Boy the entitlement crowd is in the game!

Instead of being thankful for the job these VOLUNTEERS are doing people have to slam them for a decision they made. The developers could decide they don't want everyone on their server that they are working extremely hard at restoring.

So next time you decide a change is made that doesn't fit your expectations, maybe you should take a step back and think about your response. Let's face it suggesting that anyone who voted to implement the kill quest change should be let go is not a reasonable suggestion.

To all of the developers: Thank you for the great job you are doing in order for us to enjoy this game again. Just remember that not everyone in this thread hates you.

Great job again.

Entitlement is expecting something for nothing and berating people for disagreeing with something is childish.

[covenn]

Now, I halved the gold rate since the market will stabilise a lot quicker if we remove exponential gold gain which mostly gets pumped into the already inflated economy, than if I were to sit idle and let people 'make 100 gold doing quests quests for a few days'. Most of the new player money will both go into vendor gold sinks, while luxuries such as potions and talismans can 1. be crafted yourself and 2. can still be bought and sold on the AH.

So how long do you expect a new player to the game to wait around for the market to stabilize ? Truth is, all you really accomplished for us is to double the grind we need to do to get geared out. Seems you are also forgetting how expensive it is to even level up crafts ......

I am not going to wait months for the economy to stabilize so we can gear out and unless you play on resetting the gold currently in the game or doing something about the people with thousands of it, you aren't really accomplishing anything other than boxing new players out.

[Gobtar]

There was nothing wrong with where the money was at, the gold acquiring was not exponential, it was gradual. Only thing money is used for in this game is the auction house, and has been integrated with increase in economy. Warhammer has always had a stable economy albeit stagnant, Order tends to have more inflation than destruction however.

The Killquests are effectively a minimum wage, where the financially wealthy are crafters. In order to break into that market you need to have the resources or time to invest in crafting. High end items will always be expensive due to supply and demand.

If you want to stop inflation, you need to look at what is causing it. Warhammer's inflation is not caused by a surplus of wealth, it's caused by extremely high demand for goods and services. The Value of gold is determined by the market. If you have an inflation problem, increasing the minimum wage will actually bring things more in line.

The difficulty here is that NPCs are rendering payment for a service that is only there to incentivize players to fight rather than spend time crafting, or killing mobs that do not help the war effort, unlike real soldiers who get paid wages, we have to collect profit like bounty hunters. We also have problems with having infinite resources with the exception being time. (it can be argued that the cost of maintaining your armour, weapons, mount and food is covered in the daily wage of the character)

The other problem that is with the MMO's gold value is that merchant's have a set value which certain items are worth, they are unyeilding to any market changes, this is a problem as the NPCs with one concept of what something is worth, and the free market has quite a different concept. Unlike like it's real world equivelent, there is an infinite amount of gold that can be acquired in this game, there is not one limited pool of wealth that needs to be shared by all players.

In conclusion: Drastic changes to effect the economy should not be taken likely and the question is are you willing to adjust the in-game world economy to market changes? or are you expecting the free market to bend to the ingame market? Is the minimum wage of your soldiers valued enough to afford decent items?

[Druin]

I think we need a wipe.

[Ade]

I think we need a wipe.

The sad thing is that this is what happens when you constantly say there will be no wipes, and then the easiest solution is a wipe..

If you are worried for the economy of the game then why not just address one of the main issues. Talismans are high in price, and if you want to make them yourself, it either requires you to go out and scavenge champions for a long time, or break down some epic gear.

Now since this is supposed to be an alpha, would it be so bad if you made devastator and stalker gear salvageable? This way people could simple just make their own talismans for characters that they wish to test out, and it means ludicrous amounts of gold are not all sent to the few players that play the auction game. Or again ( since this is an alpha right? ) why not just have a vendor in place that sells talismans for 10g a pop or something like that, again this leaves less time for grinding, more time for testing. ( just 2 rough sketches of ideas )

I know its just addressing one problem with the economy and there are others ( such as potions etc ) but surely there are other ways to go about it, and if you cannot bring yourselves to wipe it then have similar ideas even crossed your minds?

Just curious as to what other options you guys had before deciding that the lowering in quest gold was a way to go for helping the economy.

[covenn]

There was nothing wrong with where the money was at, the gold acquiring was not exponential, it was gradual. Only thing money is used for in this game is the auction house, and has been integrated with increase in economy. Warhammer has always had a stable economy albeit stagnant, Order tends to have more inflation than destruction however.

The Killquests are effectively a minimum wage, where the financially wealthy are crafters. In order to break into that market you need to have the resources or time to invest in crafting. High end items will always be expensive due to supply and demand.

If you want to stop inflation, you need to look at what is causing it. Warhammer's inflation is not caused by a surplus of wealth, it's caused by extremely high demand for goods and services. The Value of gold is determined by the market. If you have an inflation problem, increasing the minimum wage will actually bring things more in line.

The difficulty here is that NPCs are rendering payment for a service that is only there to incentivize players to fight rather than spend time crafting, or killing mobs that do not help the war effort, unlike real soldiers who get paid wages, we have to collect profit like bounty hunters. We also have problems with having infinite resources with the exception being time. (it can be argued that the cost of maintaining your armour, weapons, mount and food is covered in the daily wage of the character)

The other problem that is with the MMO's gold value is that merchant's have a set value which certain items are worth, they are unyeilding to any market changes, this is a problem as the NPCs with one concept of what something is worth, and the free market has quite a different concept. Unlike like it's real world equivelent, there is an infinite amount of gold that can be acquired in this game, there is not one limited pool of wealth that needs to be shared by all players.

In conclusion: Drastic changes to effect the economy should not be taken likely and the question is are you willing to adjust the in-game world economy to market changes? or are you expecting the free market to bend to the ingame market? Is the minimum wage of your soldiers valued enough to afford decent items?

Maybe get this guy on staff to talk about game economy issues with? At least then you will have someone who has the knowledge and can articulate it well.

[Malakar]

Maybe if we elect Bernie Sanders, he'll take all the gold from crafters and give it to the pvpers :^)

[peppex91]

Surely Gobtar made a nice review, but why do u fear so much to earn money from novus again?
I guess it's hard to test a game and release it without a wipe; how can u change "the extremely high demand for goods and services" if there are player who stacked almost infinite gold (I did)?
"The free market" can't be controlled by cosmetics gold dump or other npc features as Gobtar said, but surely it can be controlled by a single or multiple wipe.
I guess when full game will be released, free market will handle himself without any help.

[Kringe]

There was nothing wrong with where the money was at, the gold acquiring was not exponential, it was gradual. Only thing money is used for in this game is the auction house, and has been integrated with increase in economy. Warhammer has always had a stable economy albeit stagnant, Order tends to have more inflation than destruction however.

The Killquests are effectively a minimum wage, where the financially wealthy are crafters. In order to break into that market you need to have the resources or time to invest in crafting. High end items will always be expensive due to supply and demand.

If you want to stop inflation, you need to look at what is causing it. Warhammer's inflation is not caused by a surplus of wealth, it's caused by extremely high demand for goods and services. The Value of gold is determined by the market. If you have an inflation problem, increasing the minimum wage will actually bring things more in line.

The difficulty here is that NPCs are rendering payment for a service that is only there to incentivize players to fight rather than spend time crafting, or killing mobs that do not help the war effort, unlike real soldiers who get paid wages, we have to collect profit like bounty hunters. We also have problems with having infinite resources with the exception being time. (it can be argued that the cost of maintaining your armour, weapons, mount and food is covered in the daily wage of the character)

The other problem that is with the MMO's gold value is that merchant's have a set value which certain items are worth, they are unyeilding to any market changes, this is a problem as the NPCs with one concept of what something is worth, and the free market has quite a different concept. Unlike like it's real world equivelent, there is an infinite amount of gold that can be acquired in this game, there is not one limited pool of wealth that needs to be shared by all players.

In conclusion: Drastic changes to effect the economy should not be taken likely and the question is are you willing to adjust the in-game world economy to market changes? or are you expecting the free market to bend to the ingame market? Is the minimum wage of your soldiers valued enough to afford decent items?

Excellent Post +1 I hope the devs really look at what is said here..

We as well have just gotten here a week ago (about 13 of us total now) and making money, gearing up to fight (including respec costs) etc is going to be 10x harder now for us newer players.

We arent going to be able to afford 20 gold potions for every fight. This will not come down in price for several months.
cutting off our income to get money just seemed like a blow to the new players.

[Razid1987]

Excellent Post +1 I hope the devs really look at what is said here..

We as well have just gotten here a week ago (about 13 of us total now) and making money, gearing up to fight (including respec costs) etc is going to be 10x harder now for us newer players.

We arent going to be able to afford 20 gold potions for every fight. This will not come down in price for several months.
cutting off our income to get money just seemed like a blow to the new players.

Didn't you see they already raise the rewards again? I get you were upset about the original change, but that's not even in the game any more.

It's not the same amount as it was prior to the patch, but at least it's something.