Patch Notes 15/7/17

[Darosh]

Aswell as attacking morales were they do overperform, wich is the unmitigatble spike dmg part.

I'd vouch for that trait (or the damage for that matter in a similar fashion) to be 'scaled':
If the target area/cone/arc of the AoE is filled to the brim with targets (>>9*) = undefendable.
If the target area/cone/arc of the AoE is marginally-moderately filled with targets (e.g.: small scale; 9>>) = defendable.

That'd really punish the blobbing - give people a reason to avoid blobbing up -, and with that up the importance of awareness, general coordination (CC/AoE/movement) and still allow for morale pushes against heavily fortified (= funneled) chokepoints.
If its a 6-12man that is being enageged, well they'd have a shot at atleast sustaining themselves longer than just a set amount of seconds before the morale dump invetiably gets them - they'd still have to survive the AoE of +8 dps in a warband and assisttrains; without the soaking that is enabled in large scale fights 'normal' (and properly applied) AoE is quite potent.

*The soaking in every engagement with a bodycount >>9 serves as avoidance of sorts.

[saupreusse]

Aza's "buggy code" is an atempt to fix a problem that is mainly caused by his own refusal of not implementing the correct Morale rates in the first place.

I agree with him that the M2 AoE Morale spike damage is a bad for the game, which was his argument for not implimenting the correct vallue in the first place. (Or his own personal hate of AoE combat) But the thing is it's not solving anything and it breaks the Ultimate mechanic of the game even more.

If you would impliment correct Morale rates, drop the scaler concept and instead tweak the individual morales you would be able to get much better and ballanced ressault.

The moment the devs arent allowed to try out things for this game anymore is the moment this server dies. Saying things like: "I have told you" isn't fair.

[Vayra]

Maybe our whole guild should switch realms and prove how order is no less capable of zerg busting and bombing then destro is. I really wonder what would happen then, after we destroy the destro zerg and other guilds. Like Hao said, it comes down to skill in the end. But the problem is that order just doesn't want to admit it, they simply blame the mechanics. I admit that we generally suck in smalls scale 6v6 and so on, but order players seem to have too much pride, and rather blame something else, whatever it is.

You won't. Glad to see your guild finally admitting to being bad unless having superior numbers.

He's not wrong. The strongest guild in the world (by far) on live was on Order. They would regularly fight several times their numbers and win easily, even if they were facing organised Destro WB's. If Order was able to get a good WB comp and enough teamwork they'd easily be able to match anything Destro can bring. But even back on live, the majority of Order weren't interested in getting organized on a large scale, preferring small 6 man groups instead, except for 2 really good guilds (in EU, not too familiar with the NA guilds).

[roadkillrobin]

No point in trying to discuss if if you just gonna make yourself "victims if experimentation". If we can't discuss it from a game design mechanics perspective, then whats the point?

Id really would like to hear why staff think its a better reason to why you think it''s better to have downscaled Morale rate and tactics, rather then having correct Morale rates all across and to look at the individual overperforming Morales instead.

[wargrimnir]

No point in trying to discuss if if you just gonna make yourself "victims if experimentation". If we can't discuss it from a game design mechanics perspective, then whats the point?

Id really would like to hear why staff think its a better reason to why you think it''s better to have downscaled Morale rate and tactics, rather then having correct Morale rates all across and to look at the individual overperforming Morales instead.

One issue is the constant pounding of your fist on the table and implication that we're wrong for trying something different. The other issue is that the person who implemented the changes left, and no one wanted to go digging through the code that was left behind as it's not well understood. The preference would be to fix the code that causes issues, but in the meantime reverting it isn't exactly a trivial process either as it ties into several things. When I say we read everything and listen, that's true. But we're not going to give you milk and cookies for calling us abusive overlords.

[Natherul]

For clarification, I have passed over that line of code a few times, each time looking at it and not getting it due to some math involved there and as other things have yanked my attention I left it as is.

[roadkillrobin]

No point in trying to discuss if if you just gonna make yourself "victims if experimentation". If we can't discuss it from a game design mechanics perspective, then whats the point?

Id really would like to hear why staff think its a better reason to why you think it''s better to have downscaled Morale rate and tactics, rather then having correct Morale rates all across and to look at the individual overperforming Morales instead.

One issue is the constant pounding of your fist on the table and implication that we're wrong for trying something different. The other issue is that the person who implemented the changes left, and no one wanted to go digging through the code that was left behind as it's not well understood. The preference would be to fix the code that causes issues, but in the meantime reverting it isn't exactly a trivial process either as it ties into several things. When I say we read everything and listen, that's true. But we're not going to give you milk and cookies for calling us abusive overlords.

Again with the rethoric. Sigh
I was asking about the mechanics, Downscaled morale gain and why you think it's better then adjusting specific morales that are troublesome and having correct morale rates for everyone?

I get that the code is a mess and it's a easier to impliment slower morale rates aswell. But is i really the better sollution? Thats what im asking. Imo all it does is delaying something that is still broken if it's delayed. It doesn't mather if it hits after 10 seconds of fighting or 15 seconds. Its still not good gameplay. It also pretty much exclude one realm to use M4's in the first place wich is a part of that realms counterplays to the other factions stuff.

As for the abusive overlord stuff, i have no idea were that ties into what I wrote.

[peterthepan3]

I think it is worth mentioning that Phalanx are above and beyond every other RvR guild atm: they've been playing together for ages, have perfect class synergy setups (a HUGE thing that people seem to forget, class makeup is EVERYTHING), are very high RR, have bis gear and perfect specs (none of this lol crap), and are very disciplined in their fights.

I do believe that morale pump needs a nerf, and welcome the change so that we can see whether or not it is still overperforming/too much of a nerf. However, I think we must bear in mind that the vast majority of complaints re Phalanx are from those who don't commit to competitive RvR as much as they do, i.e. take some feedback with a pinch of salt.

Even if Phalanx were on Order, I still think the same complaints would arise. They're a very versatile guild, with good solo players (Hao/Leaky stand out), decent 6v6 experience (by far the best RvR guild in 6v6), and the best 24v24 records in the game.

[Glorian]

Peter is right on that.
Phalanx knows the classes in and out and are king on synergies.

[Haojin]

talking in general, i think this thread is a perfect match for it, feel free to move my post rules discussion or garbage bin:

all classes might be fixed/buffed/nerfed (a) and this is an private alpha server (b).

a-DfV & YSMBT get nerfed after i post an "obvious" "sarcastic" post. check bottom. still no information on patchnotes.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=22090&start=20

the thing that bothers me is: if a dev pissed enough he can rage-nerf without any discussion/feedback on "balance forums".
whats the point of "balance forums" if the classes are just a toy of someone in charge ? that "nerf" won't change anything and that's why it's so desparete. the thoughts about the morales by myself; you can check my old posts. [ just a hint: i suggested a morale drain to WL, similiar to marauder, on gimpest tree and 12th level, giving a counter instead of nerfing if you blame me i'm biased ]

b- about the rage-nerf, i think you guys doing the same mistake with your ex-project leader; super harsh when someone protesting/disagree with you, for example:

1- mentioning /s macros, even a guildie get banned because he changed his nickname into "moralepump" , i got whispers from 4 different GM's to stop this "childish" behaviour.

2- our video sharing thread got locked with some threats [ viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19002 ]

if you really care about building a healthy community and resurrect a dead game; this is not the way [same with nyky/teinhala ban].

you can always change classes, game, rvr system ect, you got the power, this is your server but don't expect from people to eat that **** and thanks for hardwork.