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Patch Notes 03/12/2020

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Jabba
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Posts: 343

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#161 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:20 pm

Charon wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:17 pm
Im not expert, but I fear that changes with rsh are going in well know direction of guardian wl - all in one, no counter, only bc 2 well know players directly rejected first project team idea. I just hope that devs will not lose sense of balance and are fully aware about consequence of bringing the class with such high amount of utilities/cc, mobility and still very good dmg to game (for now this amount of sh de facto are denying any (small scale) order play outside zerging and keep defences. And i hope that next order character will be treated with this same amount of good will (tend to appease criticism) in the balancing process. RP, AM, IB all of them need still some love.
rSH is going the same way as old guardian WL? wut
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teiloh
Posts: 668

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#162 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:33 pm

Grunbag wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:04 pm
I’m pretty sure other class aren’t locked into 1 tree because of squig armor
Neither m- or rSH are locked into a tree, going squig mode has its place even for a rSH that does not spec mSH, which makes sense on a playability/fun factor side of things, but it also gives the class far too much versatility and power, imo.

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teiloh
Posts: 668

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#163 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:41 pm

Sponn wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:20 pm
SW and SH are "mirrors?"
I thought there was a psuedo 4 way mirror between SH, WL, Mara, and SW.
Also I'm pretty sure SH is the only class that gets a knockdown, disarm, and snare by default (squig armor abilities).
Just seems like a false equivocation considering the psuedo 4 way
Yes. Core, a Squig has

1. Ranged, essentially undefendable no-GCD disarm
2. Ranged silence
3. Ranged snare
4. Point-blank AOE snare and self-punt
5. Melee snare (squig armor)
6. Ranged KD
7. Pet-cast KD (Squig)
8. Melee KD
9. Ranged Nearsight (range debuff)
10. Point-blank very high range AOE knockback

This is more CC than both the SW and WL combined, in a core class. If we combined these two classes, WLSW has:

1. Melee, essentially undefendable no-GCD silence (WL flipped mirror of disarm)
2. Ranged silence (SW mirror)
3. Ranged snare (SW mirror, SW has lower cooldown)
4. Point-blank AOE snare and self-punt
5. Melee snare (WL mirror, but lasts 5 seconds as opposed to 9)
6. Ranged KD (SW mirror)
7. Pet-cast KD (WL mirror, but must spec 9 in Guardian)
8. Melee KD (SW mirror, but must spec 13 in Assault)
9. Not mirrored, but SW has core melee disarm
10. Not mirrored, but WL has pet-based snare

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Grunbag
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Posts: 1881

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#164 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:04 pm

teiloh wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:33 pm
Grunbag wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:04 pm
I’m pretty sure other class aren’t locked into 1 tree because of squig armor
Neither m- or rSH are locked into a tree, going squig mode has its place even for a rSH that does not spec mSH, which makes sense on a playability/fun factor side of things, but it also gives the class far too much versatility and power, imo.
While squig armor you can’t use any other tree abilties , which is not the case with any other career .
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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teiloh
Posts: 668

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#165 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:13 pm

Grunbag wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:04 pm
While squig armor you can’t use any other tree abilties , which is not the case with any other career .
For SW and Mara you do get locked out of many but not all abilities. For SH, the 1-2 GCD you need to transition out of Armor can be very much worth it regardless of whether you are melee or bow spec. imo, the ideal solution involves SW and SH being able to flow in and out of melee and ranged combat, and Squig Armor being less powerful but also more flexible.

For example, removing the GCD on Squig Armor and allowing Squig to use some range and core Stabbin' abilities, but also restructure the melee tree so it isn't so concentrated.

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Grunbag
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Posts: 1881

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#166 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:34 pm

teiloh wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:13 pm
Grunbag wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:04 pm
While squig armor you can’t use any other tree abilties , which is not the case with any other career .
For SW and Mara you do get locked out of many but not all abilities. For SH, the 1-2 GCD you need to transition out of Armor can be very much worth it regardless of whether you are melee or bow spec. imo, the ideal solution involves SW and SH being able to flow in and out of melee and ranged combat, and Squig Armor being less powerful but also more flexible.

For example, removing the GCD on Squig Armor and allowing Squig to use some range and core Stabbin' abilities, but also restructure the melee tree so it isn't so concentrated.
Using bow abilties inside squig armor will be weird , and cause weird animations . ASW can keep the melee buff and precious armor and use some Ranged abilities . That’s why since live Squig armor has more abilties than any other tree . Also the 2 stabbin abilities are just here so you can use your stabba , I guess that’s why mythic never removed them. Ard noggin and big claw are the Squig armor version of Stabbity and Cut ya.

Squig armor ignore GCD already in dB, there is just a visual bug causing t to show a GCD . It will be fixed with next patch
Grunbag - 40 - 33 Squig Herder
Skorri - 40 - 65 Engineer

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Toggle
Posts: 134

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#167 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:26 pm

Charon wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:17 pm
Im not expert, but I fear that changes with rsh are going in well know direction of guardian wl - all in one, no counter, only bc 2 well know players directly rejected first project team idea. I just hope that devs will not lose sense of balance and are fully aware about consequence of bringing the class with such high amount of utilities/cc, mobility and still very good dmg to game (for now this amount of sh de facto are denying any (small scale) order play outside zerging and keep defences. And i hope that next order character will be treated with this same amount of good will (tend to appease criticism) in the balancing process. RP, AM, IB all of them need still some love.
What do you feel RP are lacking, specifically? I’m genuinely curious.
Zealot - 40/8X

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Ramlaen
Posts: 177

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#168 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:33 pm

Toggle wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:26 pm
Charon wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:17 pm
Im not expert, but I fear that changes with rsh are going in well know direction of guardian wl - all in one, no counter, only bc 2 well know players directly rejected first project team idea. I just hope that devs will not lose sense of balance and are fully aware about consequence of bringing the class with such high amount of utilities/cc, mobility and still very good dmg to game (for now this amount of sh de facto are denying any (small scale) order play outside zerging and keep defences. And i hope that next order character will be treated with this same amount of good will (tend to appease criticism) in the balancing process. RP, AM, IB all of them need still some love.
What do you feel RP are lacking, specifically? I’m genuinely curious.
Compared to its mirror? A self morale pump tactic, the tactic that adds an armor debuff to the cleave DoT not debuffing a resist as well, and a 13 point ability in the right tree worth speccing for.
Ramlaen, Longhaul, Wolfnrock, Grashop, Popori, Ebichu, Tofurky

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Naelar
Posts: 251

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#169 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:42 pm

Toggle wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:26 pm
Charon wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:17 pm
Im not expert, but I fear that changes with rsh are going in well know direction of guardian wl - all in one, no counter, only bc 2 well know players directly rejected first project team idea. I just hope that devs will not lose sense of balance and are fully aware about consequence of bringing the class with such high amount of utilities/cc, mobility and still very good dmg to game (for now this amount of sh de facto are denying any (small scale) order play outside zerging and keep defences. And i hope that next order character will be treated with this same amount of good will (tend to appease criticism) in the balancing process. RP, AM, IB all of them need still some love.
What do you feel RP are lacking, specifically? I’m genuinely curious.
The trees for both RP and Zealot are a bit borked up. Some of the things in the trees don't make sense where they are.

Dabbart
Posts: 2074

Re: Patch Notes 03/12/2020

Post#170 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:55 pm

Spoiler:
Ramlaen wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:33 pm
Toggle wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:26 pm
Charon wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:17 pm
Im not expert, but I fear that changes with rsh are going in well know direction of guardian wl - all in one, no counter, only bc 2 well know players directly rejected first project team idea. I just hope that devs will not lose sense of balance and are fully aware about consequence of bringing the class with such high amount of utilities/cc, mobility and still very good dmg to game (for now this amount of sh de facto are denying any (small scale) order play outside zerging and keep defences. And i hope that next order character will be treated with this same amount of good will (tend to appease criticism) in the balancing process. RP, AM, IB all of them need still some love.
What do you feel RP are lacking, specifically? I’m genuinely curious.
Compared to its mirror? A self morale pump tactic, the tactic that adds an armor debuff to the cleave DoT not debuffing a resist as well, and a 13 point ability in the right tree worth speccing for.

RP's armor debuff tactic, the balance team at the time didn't include the resist debuff, as RP is Ele damage, and it was widely considered to be OP-AF to give Order an AoE stackable Ele debuff. The loss of AoE heal debuff murdered the AoE DPS spec for both RP/Z.

Z has Morale pump, RP has kd/stun duration and armor. Z ST dps has instant scoure, RP ST has snare proc. Seems fair.

I agree, RP needs a somewhat decent replacement for Grimnir's Fury, which is just dog ****. And both need a good long look at their rune/ritual's and RoB/Harbinger. Healing rune/ritual procing EVERYTHING and glowy hands being worthless to dance through(regardless of spec), along with severe cookie-cutter build limitations(even compared to other healers), makes them a little boring. Oh and being the only healer w/o a grp cleanse. Minus the healing procs, Zs are bottom tier healers, RPs will always be nice with armor and KD/Stun tactics.

Sorry to derail
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