Patch Notes 28/05/2021

[wargrimnir]

I spoke about this privately earlier. There are a great number of buffs that could be shattered/severed. This is one of those functions that a tank could (probably should) potentially be doing as frequently as possible, particularly since it doesn't fire unless there's something to remove. In high skill play they would be doing this responsively without NB and instead relying on Buffhead to show them high priority buffs as soon as they show up.

Literally admitting that NB helps bad players be as effective as skilled players.

You would need to add every ability ID of the abilities you specifically want to sever into an NB sequence, and it's simply not that reliable when you load up conditions like that.

You can just put shatter before your spam skill and it will shatter whenever possible. It is literally always worth doing that over your spam attack on a tank.

As effective? Only if they're already a good player for many reasons otherwise. Does it make a bad player confident to compete at a higher level? Yes, and that's probably a good thing.

The shatter example was in response to 'specific' abilities being used for 'specific' reasons. Using shatter on cooldown doesn't do that, and I generally would agree tanks should be using it as often as possible. It's always going to be valuable. However it's not being conditioned up to remove specific abilities because that list of specific abilities would likely overwhelm NB's ability to process correctly. It's not exactly a stable addon.

So by what Wargrimnir posts here, the devs changed their stance on NB, now its ok to be used... I dnot use it, but i know how it works, and makes extremely sad seeying good pvpers defending an addon with positional checks and sequencers. Yes there are alot of addons that present information but NB takes a decision and even acts for you, its not the same thing. We are playing a pvp game, where doing your correct spell rotation as a bright wizard or sorc its part of playing decently, where using your positional attacks as a melee dps to pump out more damage, or casting an interupt at the right time, or shattering/severing buffs, all this goes away with NB. Where is the player in this? How can you say you are a good pvper when an addon does that for you?(you can easly check alot of this by just watching certain players using it in ranked, shattering/severing buffs automatic, using the right attack at the right moment automatic). Anyways its irrelevant what i say or show, devs have decided.

now its ok to be used...
It's not, it will be blocked again, that's the direction we're heading lacking any significant constructive reasonable feedback

I dnot use it, but i know how it works
You may have a good idea how it works. In practice it's quite a bit different and more limited than most detractors give it credit for.

doing your correct spell rotation as a bright wizard or sorc its part of playing decently,
This isn't going away, it's just being moved somewhere else. Rotations will still be sequenced outside of our ability to impact it.

using your positional attacks as a melee dps to pump out more damage
Several positionals do worse damage unless you're accurately behind someone. NB fixes that by only actually being usable when the client knows you're behind someone. It's not a skill thing to have the client/server desync and make your potentially good ability worse than your spammable attacks.

casting an interupt at the right time, or shattering/severing buffs
NB isn't used for this reliably by anyone playing at a reasonably high tier. It's more likely to be Buffhead providing this information.

how can you say you are a good pvper when an addon
Pretty sure most people that use NB don't consider themselves good, it's been well criticized over the years

watching certain players using it in ranked, shattering/severing buffs automatic
This disregards that Ranked is the most competitive tier of play where you would expect a very high level of awareness and reaction time

[nonfactor]

You can just put shatter before your spam skill and it will shatter whenever possible. It is literally always worth doing that over your spam attack on a tank.

not really, you would not shatter if youre trying to burst, you would not shatter if the removed buffs would be some random useless tank buffs in smallscale situation etc
no NB sequence will outplay a good player

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

I spoke about this privately earlier. There are a great number of buffs that could be shattered/severed. This is one of those functions that a tank could (probably should) potentially be doing as frequently as possible, particularly since it doesn't fire unless there's something to remove. In high skill play they would be doing this responsively without NB and instead relying on Buffhead to show them high priority buffs as soon as they show up.

Literally admitting that NB helps bad players be as effective as skilled players.

You would need to add every ability ID of the abilities you specifically want to sever into an NB sequence, and it's simply not that reliable when you load up conditions like that.

You can just put shatter before your spam skill and it will shatter whenever possible. It is literally always worth doing that over your spam attack on a tank.

As effective? Only if they're already a good player for many reasons otherwise. Does it make a bad player confident to compete at a higher level? Yes, and that's probably a good thing.

In this specific case it would make them as effective at least. The second part exactly demonstrates the problem with NB. If you give NB to a good player it will make them play a couple percent better. Note that a couple percent can be the difference in a competetive environment. Even bigger problem is that NB allows bad players to play way better (much higher percentage than good players). And that is why it is very different to any other addon that some people mentioned in this thread. Those addons just provide information, a good player will probably even get more out of it than a bad player, whereas NB is the complete opposite.

As a test sometime ago I set up a macro on the dps DoK with 7 abilities, including proper conditions. You literally don't have to think about your basic rotation anymore. I really don't understand how people find that acceptable.

The shatter example was in response to 'specific' abilities being used for 'specific' reasons. Using shatter on cooldown doesn't do that, and I generally would agree tanks should be using it as often as possible. It's always going to be valuable. However it's not being conditioned up to remove specific abilities because that list of specific abilities would likely overwhelm NB's ability to process correctly. It's not exactly a stable addon.

The shatter example is not a very good one. In the macro I made for the DoK you just let it check whether Warding Strike/Sanguinary Extension are already on the target.In fact I let it check for the duration left so it would reapply just before it ran out. For fun I made Lacerate only be cast if it wasn't on the target & the target was above 70% health. So of course you can make the macro cast specific abilities for specific reasons.

[zumos2]

You can just put shatter before your spam skill and it will shatter whenever possible. It is literally always worth doing that over your spam attack on a tank.

not really, you would not shatter if youre trying to burst, you would not shatter if the removed buffs would be some random useless tank buffs in smallscale situation etc
no NB sequence will outplay a good player

Please read before you make untrue comments. I said you put the shatter before your spam attack. Obviously your spam attack isn't your burst. And yes of course you would remove "random useless tank buffs" over using your spam attack. You would also remove them because they would cover more important buffs.

[nonfactor]

You can just put shatter before your spam skill and it will shatter whenever possible. It is literally always worth doing that over your spam attack on a tank.

not really, you would not shatter if youre trying to burst, you would not shatter if the removed buffs would be some random useless tank buffs in smallscale situation etc
no NB sequence will outplay a good player

Please read before you make untrue comments. I said you put the shatter before your spam attack. Obviously your spam attack isn't your burst. And yes of course you would remove "random useless tank buffs" over using your spam attack. You would also remove them because they would cover more important buffs.

u miss the point, shattering decreases your overall damage as a tank and in some cases u want to do more damage

[zumos2]

not really, you would not shatter if youre trying to burst, you would not shatter if the removed buffs would be some random useless tank buffs in smallscale situation etc
no NB sequence will outplay a good player

Please read before you make untrue comments. I said you put the shatter before your spam attack. Obviously your spam attack isn't your burst. And yes of course you would remove "random useless tank buffs" over using your spam attack. You would also remove them because they would cover more important buffs.

u miss the point, shattering decreases your overall damage as a tank and in some cases u want to do more damage

Do I really have to repeat myself. It's not a significant damage loss if you use it in place of your spam attack. Considering you are probably removing a HoT or shield you are basically adding a lot of damage on top of it. But even if you made a huge macro which included shatter, you could set it for example to skip shatter in favor of higher damage abilities if target is below x % health, showcasing the power of conditions.

In general, giving examples of how to use NB in a bad way is not a good argument to justify keeping NB in the game.

[Moert]

It's ok to not be a good player, if you want to become better then you will have to put in some effort to improve. Using NB indicates to me that you want to play better than you are able to, but instead of putting in effort to improve yourself you program an addon to make important decisions for you.

There's a big difference between addons that display information to you and NB that can make perfect decisions for you based on conditions.

[anarchypark]

It's not that complex.
however small it is, it reduces human error, saving gcd otherwise wasted, almost instant reaction without awareness.
you can focus on other things while it helps those automatically.
WE/WH backstab check is good example.

it's pvp game. frustration is same like facing fps aim helper.
enemy, buffhead is different. addons help. but how far is ok?
ppl have different lines it seems.
and it's up to ror team. hope there's healthy result.

I'm sorry for disabled players.
they might need hardware help not software.

well, i don't know why i keep playing pvp game with 300 ping and many disadvantages.
I would do whatever helps my ping, maybe NB is same concept for others.

[Alfa1986]

My two mexican dollars and two cents.
Anyone who claims on serious that NB reduces the gameplay to pressing one or two buttons either deliberately lie and mislead or do not understand what hi s talking about or just say absolute sht. Tell us how you can link (to bind) dot, detaunt, escape, root, Punch, stun, silence, stagger, etc. to one button. This is just nonsense and does not make any sense and impossible in reality.
Usually I used 12-15 buttons all the time, now I need to use 20 or more, on an ordinary standard keyboard it is not so easy to do it, that it would be efficient and operative, but this is not the main problem. The main problem is that not everyone has good hardware and a stable good Internet.
In massive zerg battles, I often have freezes, lags, delays that can go up to several seconds. In such conditions, tracking whether you could hung up dot or not, whether the target parried your dot or not, leads to multiple missclicks and mistakes.
The next point is that melee DPS do not have as much time for making decisions as Range DPS do, you have a few seconds to run up to the enemy, deal burst damage, and leave, one mistake, one missclick or delay, the wrong sequence of attack skills and you dead and usually without any result at all, unlike Range DPS, when you can just stand and spam AoE, and you would be such effective as it was before pressing one button as it was before.

You can remove a few more add-ons from games, like enemy or healbot, remove the action points or hp bar, and make the game even more hardcore and realistic, but most of players arent esportsmen, they don't need these competitions. they just want to play several hours of free time in favorite game.
The prohibition of the NB is simply like that people are forced to crawl on all fours when they could be walk in the usual way. No everyone likes to crawl on all fours, even it looks like more hardcore, so why then all this?

[yuaa22]

It's not, it will be blocked again, that's the direction we're heading lacking any significant constructive reasonable feedback

Main goal of any gamedesigner is give players many opportunitys and at the same time simplify controls. Many skills on many keys give many opportunitys, but very complicates controls. Many games were closed because devs don`t understand that ppl don`t play games with very complex controls. Warhammer Online was badly gamedesigned, like an older version of WoW. Nerfed Buttons partially solve this problem. If devs can`t understand this that means they don`t have any normal gamedesigners and its very sad.