ASW vs WE fights

[vipevox]

Biggest reason why WE/WH slow dagger/gunshot snare worked better before was because there was no real reason for people to strafe. You could just run normally and shoot arrows from you bum so most didn't bother with strafing. I can't say I agree that doing very basic MMO movement is ''exploit''. There are things WE/WH can do to make the chance for the snare to proc higher, which I explained in this thread already and I know its much worse than what it used to be since I have also played my WE before and after the changes.

Of course, I know about the delayed daggers, but I'm still talking about something else. And I've updated my answer above.

If you're not talking about the throwing dagger/gunshot that slows then I'm not sure what it is about

The movement or jumping alone doesn't prevent any enemy spell casts like for example how jumping used to cancel mara pull. Atleast I am not aware of anything like that and none of the people I asked about this were either. If you know some enemy casts that get interrupted by jumping or movement its probably a good idea to bug tracker it and hopefully there is a fix to it. Only thing that comes to my mind are the melee channels that get instantly cancelled if someone moves out of range or to the side enough so the cast is not within the hit range. Ofcourse that can be done for range channels too but the radius is much bigger than it is for melee channels.

Yes, at the moment I am talking about the example on WE daggers. And about the fact that the old system in this regard worked more correctly than it works now. As a variant of the correction, I wrote that it is possible to expand the zone, as it is done, for example, with a blow to the back and armor penetration, which according to the description works from behind, but in fact from the side. The same can be done with a dagger.

[Stinksuit]

Of course, I know about the delayed daggers, but I'm still talking about something else. And I've updated my answer above.

If you're not talking about the throwing dagger/gunshot that slows then I'm not sure what it is about :D

The movement or jumping alone doesn't prevent any enemy spell casts like for example how jumping used to cancel mara pull. Atleast I am not aware of anything like that and none of the people I asked about this were either. If you know some enemy casts that get interrupted by jumping or movement its probably a good idea to bug tracker it and hopefully there is a fix to it. Only thing that comes to my mind are the melee channels that get instantly cancelled if someone moves out of range or to the side enough so the cast is not within the hit range. Ofcourse that can be done for range channels too but the radius is much bigger than it is for melee channels.

Yes, at the moment I am talking about the example on WE daggers. And about the fact that the old system in this regard worked more correctly than it works now. As a variant of the correction, I wrote that it is possible to expand the zone, as it is done, for example, with a blow to the back and armor penetration, which according to the description works from behind, but in fact from the side. The same can be done with a dagger.

They could change it to work that way but thats upto the devs and doesn't have anything to do with jumping. I guess its just getting confusing that we are talking about different topics or something at this point :D

[vipevox]

If you're not talking about the throwing dagger/gunshot that slows then I'm not sure what it is about

The movement or jumping alone doesn't prevent any enemy spell casts like for example how jumping used to cancel mara pull. Atleast I am not aware of anything like that and none of the people I asked about this were either. If you know some enemy casts that get interrupted by jumping or movement its probably a good idea to bug tracker it and hopefully there is a fix to it. Only thing that comes to my mind are the melee channels that get instantly cancelled if someone moves out of range or to the side enough so the cast is not within the hit range. Ofcourse that can be done for range channels too but the radius is much bigger than it is for melee channels.

Yes, at the moment I am talking about the example on WE daggers. And about the fact that the old system in this regard worked more correctly than it works now. As a variant of the correction, I wrote that it is possible to expand the zone, as it is done, for example, with a blow to the back and armor penetration, which according to the description works from behind, but in fact from the side. The same can be done with a dagger.

They could change it to work that way but thats upto the devs and doesn't have anything to do with jumping. I guess its just getting confusing that we are talking about different topics or something at this point

Yes, it's already a bit confusing) Of course, I'm not talking about jumps, but sideways movements, which do not allow you to slow down the target with the knives in WE. But in the end, yes, my complaints (or rather wishes for corrections) are specifically to the developers who changed the ability system, but did not take into account a certain emerging exploit in movements and positioning. In any case, I liked the video and good luck in battles in RVR

[sharpblader]

Spoiler:

Yes except for a decent AM on order side i don't see them losing to much . Maybe SM with M3 up.

SW is really fun but too bad ASW is the most nerfed spec on the server, hence some of these WE's are unacceptable ( although you did well, from what i can see )

Def WEs are a shadow of what they were. Stacking toughness and other pure defenses no longer work as good against other solo specs due to WB now scaling with strength.

It will still stomp non solo builds, but the good solo WEs you see that seem to be def/regen are actually running strength soft cap builds, and have dropped FM for better tactics.

Lastly, I believe SM M3 is too overrated. Good players just cc/stop attacking.

Personally I think the spec is still strong, it just works differently. You don't really need fs since you run the absorb from crits tactic. Leaving you with alot of renown points to use. You also don't really need ws since wb is your main source of dmg. And crit kinda falls under the same category. So you basically just need str cap and then you can pump other renown points into parry and dodge/disrupt making you quite annoying to deal with due to the changes made into defensive stats..

Agreed. Still strong, but its slightly easier to deal with them now than before I feel.

The height of regen WE dominance was when I believe they introduced triumph/vict ring outside ranked for the 4pc bonus and WB was bugged as it was getting dmg buff from frenzied mayhem without even requiring to slot the tactic.

That era was nightmare fuel. 2-3 WB rotations were enough to get a solo kill. Still, bis dps had enough power to counter them if they were prepared.

[Stinksuit]

Spoiler:

Def WEs are a shadow of what they were. Stacking toughness and other pure defenses no longer work as good against other solo specs due to WB now scaling with strength.

It will still stomp non solo builds, but the good solo WEs you see that seem to be def/regen are actually running strength soft cap builds, and have dropped FM for better tactics.

Lastly, I believe SM M3 is too overrated. Good players just cc/stop attacking.

Personally I think the spec is still strong, it just works differently. You don't really need fs since you run the absorb from crits tactic. Leaving you with alot of renown points to use. You also don't really need ws since wb is your main source of dmg. And crit kinda falls under the same category. So you basically just need str cap and then you can pump other renown points into parry and dodge/disrupt making you quite annoying to deal with due to the changes made into defensive stats..

Agreed. Still strong, but its slightly easier to deal with them now than before I feel.

The height of regen WE dominance was when I believe they introduced triumph/vict ring outside ranked for the 4pc bonus and WB was bugged as it was getting dmg buff from frenzied mayhem without even requiring to slot the tactic.

That era was nightmare fuel. 2-3 WB rotations were enough to get a solo kill. Still, bis dps had enough power to counter them if they were prepared.

I havent actually checked if WEs are able to get double absorb procs from gear now with darkpromise having it too. Even if they can't, its still quite a big boost in gear if they're using that compared to oppressor? Iirc that's the set with absorb. I suppose most high rr regen WE don't use that anyway but if its possible to get 2 absorbs from gear and then tactic it's gonna be really annoying to kill them xD

[Farrul]

I never got to play the old version of asw so I wouldn't know but there are definitely things I wish would work a bit different for this current asw. I'm hoping it gets some good changes in the pve patch tho

ASW used to 5k armor, Broadhead arrow available in asssult stance stacking 3 x. A big increase of Auto attack damage in assault stance( 60-70% iirc). I also believe crosscut is still bugged (the spirit dmg) but don't quote me on that one, i may be forgeting a few nerfs in the long series of nerfs to ASW.

I never understood why devs nerfed an underdog spec when everyone was playing Scout/festering anyways. Hopefully yes, devs will undo some of the nerfs or improve it in the upcoming dps patches, but I wouldn't count on anything.

I can get 5k armor now aswell if I don't use bl weapon.
Imo the ranged abilities shouldn't be on the assault stance. Even having spiral and glass arrow available seems a bit odd to me but who knows, maybe in the future we get more melee abilities and spiral/glass are purely tied to ranged stances.

High armor ASW was a consequence of the old armor talis, when those got nerfed armor took a big hit. But worse was the change of parry which i forgot to mention, old ASW had 75%-80% parry since the spec easily stacks ws high. Change to parry-> InI was a significant defensive nerf to the spec, since SW doesn't really have any sustain like some other melee classes the avoidance in melee was important for its survival.

Maybe yes if standard melee spec stuff like a snare, AOE detaunt etc is given. The clunky animation of Shadowstep also begs to be replaced by something more functional

[Farrul]

Most of the options across classes to solo were nerfed to the ground (both sides). On Destro, all we see is WHx2, AM, and the occasional WL. Now with a little Engi sprinkled in and 2HWP until they get kited a few times.

I always leave alone (or try to) the occasional Slayer (shout out to Wildheart and Khu), Logicz (BW), and the very rare ASW.

There are a few heal-over-time SMs that I ignore since they Tali, Lini, and RR +heal-over-time. Not waiting for their insane M3 =p

On Destro we have WE, Marauders, Magus (all over the place), SHA, rSH (insta die to WH/WL), and the occasional Chosen.

I am looking forward to the patch after the DPS balance patch where the Devs bring back unique abilities to classes (in their roadmap somewhere).

Yes this is really the truth, although some were justified and long overdue ( as mentioned, Def we when she ignored toughness was ridiculous, also WH of old was a bit too much).

The game just isn't nearly as fun anymore imho for solo, the meta is stale and you see these DPS casters everywhere, We's and then some regen tank here and there. Boring!

This is why i have mostly stopped playing the game or just fool around in T1-T3 scenarios, a shame since i really like the warhammer setting. The final nail in the coffin was the nerf to resistance liniment, that further nerfed the diversity of solo classes and promoted more casters/magic meta. We got AM/ Magus everywhere now