There are 3 problems
1. Mara / wl have a 500-600 stronger armor buff then anythin else in the game. Every point in the left tree increases damage for you and your allies by near 1%. This makes mara / wl mandatory for everey pdps heavy setup.
2. Mandatory armor potions
Armor potions are to potent and is to easy to come by. Lowering them by 2/3 would make several redundant abilities worth using again
3. Armor inflation
Even though devs have realised and lowered the armour gain on new 40+ Sets they also have added multiple new acessories that can hold extra armor tallies. Imo these never should have been allowed to hold armor tallies and this will become really stupid if more jewelery with tally slots are added. The extreme would be 6 "new" acessory slots holding 6x180 tallies on top of 7-8x180 from weapons and armor plus a 907 potion
Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
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Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
Last edited by Bozzax on Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7
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- TenTonHammer
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Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
So the only value Mara has even in grp play is its armor debuff?Toldavf wrote: At which point at the very least the marauder simply goes on the shelf for a 2nd chopper. You won't fix any meta with swapsies, you will just change it breaking classes as you go.
Really?
Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
I would argue that armour on medium classes only becomes a problem if they reach a level where the tank debuffs are completely eclipsed.
Also if people think that tanks lack a credible armour debuff (they don't) why don't people make a suggestion on it.
Also if people think that tanks lack a credible armour debuff (they don't) why don't people make a suggestion on it.
Khorlar, Thorvold, Sjohgar, Anareth, Toldavf, Hartwin, Gotrin and others -_-
- TenTonHammer
- Posts: 3807
Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
Dajciekrwi wrote: Simply because, noone will play mdps, if tanks have same debuff with along more survivality?
If compared with Mara generally - 2H chosens and Black Orcs kills more and do more damage in scenarios.
amazing i didnt realise that the only value all 3 mdps had for each respetive faction was their armor debuffs
Inc hdbuff in of its self is massive having "damage" means jack **** we all saw that thread about that SC ib with 300K dmg and 2dbs
runnign around with sprit dmg aura will let me have big numbers in scs too not that it means anything and 2h chosen and BO are basically joke specs
- TenTonHammer
- Posts: 3807
Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
Toldavf wrote: Also if people think that tanks lack a credible armour debuff (they don't) why don't people make a suggestion on it.
theirs already a pending one for BG, Mara debuff value swap
my issue is that tanks have to use an ability + a morale to be able to competeI would argue that armour on medium classes only becomes a problem if they reach a level where the tank debuffs are completely eclipsed.
Last edited by TenTonHammer on Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
Bozzax wrote:There are 3 problems
1. Mara / wl have a 500-600 stronger armor buff then anythin else in the game. Every point in the left tree increases damage for you and your allies by near 1%
This makes mara / wl mandatory for everey pdps heavy setup.
2. Mandatory armor potions
Armor potions are to potent and is to easy to come by. Lowering them by 2/3 would make several redundant abilities worth using again
3. Armor inflation
Even though devs have realised and lowered the armour gain on new 40+ Sets they also have added multiple new acessories that can hold extra armor tallies. Imo these never should have been allowed to hold armor tallies and this will become really stupid if more jewelery with tally slots are added
Maybe the solution will be increasing armor debuff value on other armor debuffers. I really dont get Your point. On other hand You point that there are strong armor debuffers(WL, Mara) which is not good, than You point there is still lot of armor on sets. I dont think solution is everyone will be running around half naked if big armor nerf hit the game. Increasing other armor debuffs on BO, BG, IB, SW, Engi and SH to WL/Mara value will solve this mandatory role of WL/Mara in physical damage dealing premades? I am not sure.
Pigbutcher - Choppa RR80+
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Cyplenkov - Marauder RR80+
Vdova - Witch elf RR80+
Hajzl - Swordmaster RR80+
Roznetka - Engineer RR70+
Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
Sure that wrks too (buffing all other armor debuffs to 1600 @ max spec) and would make non mara / wl grps viable as well.
Last edited by Bozzax on Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7
Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
Well look at it this way.TenTonHammer wrote:So the only value Mara has even in grp play is its armor debuff?Toldavf wrote: At which point at the very least the marauder simply goes on the shelf for a 2nd chopper. You won't fix any meta with swapsies, you will just change it breaking classes as you go.
Really?
If the marauder doesn't provide additional dps thought its armour debuff to all 4 members of the melee train, and its wounds debuff is only marginally higher than a chosens (around 400 hp). Why would you take him? Melee groups will always opt for the most damage, unless they want to run some ap drain jank (which isnt an option on order double slayer premades for life woooo) so mara is passed up for something else that will do either more or sustained physical damage.
So to answer your incredulous question imo yes.
Khorlar, Thorvold, Sjohgar, Anareth, Toldavf, Hartwin, Gotrin and others -_-
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Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
Util and being much harder to kill then a chp/sly or a we/wh in light armor
Quite important things when you play weakest link
Tough: 10s CD aoe detaunts and no rage mechanic, pounce and monstro stance/heal leech
Util: pounce/fetch/TE/ensnare/fof/ all setup kills for you grp
Edit: slayer ID and rampage are other retarded designs by myth but another topic imo
Quite important things when you play weakest link
Tough: 10s CD aoe detaunts and no rage mechanic, pounce and monstro stance/heal leech
Util: pounce/fetch/TE/ensnare/fof/ all setup kills for you grp
Edit: slayer ID and rampage are other retarded designs by myth but another topic imo
Last edited by Bozzax on Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.
A reasonable RvR system that could make the majority happy http://imgur.com/HL6cgl7
- TenTonHammer
- Posts: 3807
Re: Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem
debuffs that cant be clenased by WP, overal all dps on par with choppa while being no where as squighy as chop or WE, 10% inc chance to be impale crit tactic, pull,, Wounds debuff is still lower cd while having higher value than blast wave and since in 6v6 its all about focus targeting, is over all better, etcToldavf wrote:
Well look at it this way.
If the marauder doesn't provide additional dps thought its armour debuff to all 4 members of the melee train, and its wounds debuff is only marginally higher than a chosens (around 400 hp). Why would you take him? Melee groups will always opt for the most damage, unless they want to run some ap drain jank (which isnt an option on order double slayer premades for life woooo) so mara is passed up for something else that will do either more or sustained physical damage.
So to answer your incredulous question imo yes.
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