Mara trees and the everything in 1 spec problem

[Toldavf]

Util and being much harder to kill then a chp/sly or a we/wh in light armor

Quite important things when you play weakest link

Tough: 10s CD aoe detaunts and no rage mechanic, pounce and monstro stance

Util: pounce/fetch/TE/ensnare/fof/

Trading on an equal footing with a slayer you will loose in a group setting he has more damage

True you are tougher but this stuff won't help you win and if you are having to drop into monstro in the first place that's because the fight is going badly, general reasons for that in grp play are either you messed up or the enemy has more dps.

The pull isn't absolutely fantastic in organised 6 and remains a tool for punishing pugs and fleeing enemies.

You are 100% right the mara is tougher and probably because of it a bit easier to play but its by no means invincible and I will still take crits that exceed 1k from physical classes.

[Bozzax]

Droping into monstro is a great tool as you survive burst and simply pop back (no cold start or anything) .The fact that your crit tactic (which is wo restrictions, no cold start and rly strong) has a penelty that wears off when kiting pressure or your aoe detaunt is almost always off cd is almost insulting to other mdps

Agree pull isn't fantastic but it still is very good and sometimes wins it for you as it disables, pulls a dps off a squishie in trouble or breaks a deadlock by causing movement/errors.

I won't argue slayers aren't broken as fck and always were and still are the best mdps in game. That is a seperate problem imo and anything that has an aoe spec that out damages every other ST specs (all mdps both realm) on ST is obviosly broken

[Scrilian]

Then why should it be better than tanks debuffs whom also have to be in melee to apply it?

Because you, my tanky friend, have a lot of tools not available to mdps, like guard, punts, etc, duh

I won't argue slayers aren't broken as fck and always were and still are the best mdps in game

Suuuure
Slayer right now is the magus of mdps.

[TenTonHammer]

Then why should it be better than tanks debuffs whom also have to be in melee to apply it?

Because you, my tanky friend, have a lot of tools not available to mdps, like guard, punts, etc, duh

I won't argue slayers aren't broken as fck and always were and still are the best mdps in game

Suuuure
Slayer right now is the magus of mdps.

And mdps has a lot of tools that tanks don't have


It goes both ways

[Dreadspectre]

Do people still really feel MDPS is bad in this game vs. RDPS?

Order has been getting steamrolled by melee trains in SC the last couple days. I can't speak from truly organized 6v6 or anything so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass but melee train seems like the better setup(from what I've seen) as long as people just hit the same target.

On topic though, yes, anything to break Maras. Yeah you could buff other classes but is that really wise? Do we want shorter TTK?

I think Maras have too much utility to damage ratio at the moment. My only gripe.

[Haojin]

i think marauder should be deleted from game.

thanks for reading.

[Jaycub]

Do people still really feel MDPS is bad in this game vs. RDPS?

Order has been getting steamrolled by melee trains in SC the last couple days. I can't speak from truly organized 6v6 or anything so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass but melee train seems like the better setup(from what I've seen) as long as people just hit the same target.

On topic though, yes, anything to break Maras. Yeah you could buff other classes but is that really wise? Do we want shorter TTK?

I think Maras have too much utility to damage ratio at the moment. My only gripe.

Melee stops being good outside of organized play, which is basically 6v6.

The biggest problem melee train 6 mans will encounter in scenarios is when their offgroup is unorganized or unable to do much because of lack of healing or tanks etc... So you end up in a situation where your 2 mdps are the only thing the entire 12 people on the other team have to really deal with. Since you can't cheese it with gear anymore you just can't wing it when you have 4-5 dps on one of your MDPS players.

Basically it's just really hard to carry a bad offgroup as a melee train because of the position you need to be in deal damage. Wheras with a 3-2-1 setup or full RDPS setup you have more damage, and you can still kite and make some use of a terrible offgroup as meat shields and pray you pick off the other team fast enough to turn the tide.

In ORvR when you are a 6man fighting the zerg you can't run melee train, you have to be able to kite away at the drop of a hat. And having to be 100ft closer to deal damage is just not conductive for that. Also when defending a keep you need to assist on the walls or play postern and push and pick, again having 2 mdps run into the blob to try and get a kill will end more times than not in death, compared to say 3 rdps assisting from 100ft away, or a mara rooting/pulling someone and the sh/sorc running in finishing them off. Also in ORvR single target speced RDPS can very easily turn into AoE machines with M2 bombs, MDPS cant do anything nearly as good. When you want farm a pug warband running up ramp or into a choke you want sorc/sh with m2, not shitty unspeced/buffed demo/lotsachopin spam etc...

I can't speak for organized warbands, but I'm sure the AoE builds with powerful debuffs like mara and slayer works fine, but that's hardly a "melee train".

[Penril]

Basically it's just really hard to carry a bad offgroup as a melee train because of the position you need to be in deal damage. Wheras with a 3-2-1 setup or full RDPS setup you have more damage, and you can still kite and make some use of a terrible offgroup as meat shields and pray you pick off the other team fast enough to turn the tide.

Maybe if the "pro" groups could toss one HoT to the other group every once in a while they might be able to support you better. However in SCs, the premade usually doesn't give a flying duck about the other group. Hell... you pretty much look at them only as "meat shields".

Saw it myself last night (duoing with a guildie) and was like, screw that... let the premade charge in and mayyyyybe we assist one of them. Or let's just go to a different flag.

Don't blame it on mDPS. Blame it on premades looking the other 6 guys over the shoulder.

[Panzerkasper]

Do people still really feel MDPS is bad in this game vs. RDPS?

Order has been getting steamrolled by melee trains in SC the last couple days. I can't speak from truly organized 6v6 or anything so maybe I'm just talking out of my ass but melee train seems like the better setup(from what I've seen) as long as people just hit the same target.

On topic though, yes, anything to break Maras. Yeah you could buff other classes but is that really wise? Do we want shorter TTK?

I think Maras have too much utility to damage ratio at the moment. My only gripe.

Well, you obviously never played against a well executed order range group with a melee train.....

[Jaycub]

Maybe if the "pro" groups could toss one HoT to the other group every once in a while they might be able to support you better. However in SCs, the premade usually doesn't give a flying duck about the other group. Hell... you pretty much look at them only as "meat shields".

Saw it myself last night (duoing with a guildie) and was like, screw that... let the premade charge in and mayyyyybe we assist one of them. Or let's just go to a different flag.

Don't blame it on mDPS. Blame it on premades looking the other 6 guys over the shoulder.

I do see cases of this, infact I rage quit a BotBC yesterday because a premade wasn't oop and getting camped in spawn because of it. Getting soloed by 1 DoT and a SH pet can make you pretty angry.

But I've been playing healer recently, oop is something I always do specifically because I understand that if the offgroup falls then it's a 6v12 situation. Also you should above all else res the off group healer asap if he dies. But I see the other side of the coin as well. Unguarded MDPS players running in like morons, when they know they don't have an in group healer. People in the offgroup tanks rdps whatever running way too far in line of sighting etc... When you have no healer in your party you need to play like you don't expect anything but a HoT or two, keep tabs on the premades group, if they are having trouble keeping their own party up don't push.

When you are a PUG player in a party with no healer you need to play very passive and smart, and play off the premade. You can't do your own thing, you can't be aggressive, and you certainly can't be off in Africa somewhere and except any kind of assistance.

I don't think not healing the offgroup is a malicious thing, players that aren't doing it are just straight up shitty healers. All the good healers I know are scoreboard whores, it's an extremely juicy bump to healing numbers just hotting an offgroup with no healer. And if the offgroup particularly has good players in it most will split into it so they can group heal. There is also absolutely zero logical reason to not heal out of party when your group is stabilized over 80/90% hp, it's just bad play. And there is a lot of bad healers out there.


With that said tho, if a premade is fighting another premade. Having to heal an offgroup is a serious enough impairment that really you are going to lose most of the time regardless of MDPS or 3-2-1 etc... The other thing I have noticed if the other team is flush in RDPS (had several last night where our 4 mans is playing against 4 bws and like and extra engineer or sw) OOP HoT's aren't going to cut it, the offgroup is just going to melt and funnily enough I heal for over 400k and had hots rolling on all these guys that just die instantly and they of course blame me for it. I mean you would have a hard time healing a guarded target in a premade against even 3 rdps assisting each other.