WE - against WHs

[coldhunter]

Hey guys,

How do you fight WHs and what's the most difficult part in fighting against WHs?

It's funny that all those who are hysterical about def-WE here - are the guys on SM, who have almost all they pieces with hp/4sec (with 2fleshrender ofc), lol. I think the fact that you drive such hypocrites to hysteria alone is worth playing this build :3

As about you question...
So the main plan looks like this: if you open first - use Enfeebling Strike (dmg on movement) right after it use stun, envenomed blade/wrackling pains (dots) because WH will stagger you right after stun ends and you will want him to take some dmg from dots, when you staying in cc, right? After this he will do the same to you and he will use Repel Blasphemy ofc, which gives him 100%parry for 5sec, so you probably can use jump, to get oyt from melee range for this 5sec. After this you will just circling around and trying to bypass each other parrys . Dont forget about M1, which will give him another 7sec of 100%parry.

If WH gets open first - just eat dmg, then use jump right after stun on you ends, eat potion (because you already lose half+hp), stealth, repeat everything from previous plan^.

Btw, if you decide to play with a def build, ignoring the squeals of these hypocritical crybabies - you may choose the Ripost tactic, wich will do a LOT of dmg to wh, melee SW and slayers with duals (but almost dont do dmg to other melee classes, unfortunately). ANd if you really hate WH, you may play in 1 tree with tactic for 10%parry, ripost and OYK,(with Kiss of Doom and Sacrificial Rewarded ofc) which will made a living nightmare to every wh on serv.

[Farrul]

Thanks for the advice. Though, while I do know how to tweak my build to fit the matchup (as you said, preferably 0% crit because of absorb on being crit / taunt into kd into channel, etc.) I simply refuse to play a procc regen build myself due to .. well, probably pride and ego? I don't see much sense in playing in a way that leaves my opponents without many, if any, chances. I'm full crit and if I die doing so then so be it but at the end of the day I can say I'm winning because of my gameplay not because my build carries me. My SM is specifically crafted in a way that provides me with a chance to win against anything if I play well (except good Sham/Zeal or def we/magus) without being ashamed of running it because I'm near invincible. If people want to have a 1v1 for 5 min trying to out-regen each other then they're welcome but I don't see much accomplishment in playing in such a way.

Of course, to each his own. I personally would change build and adapt if there was a certain hard to beat player but i can respect those that whish to play like you've described. Although most of the time i wouldn't change from my standard generalist 35% ish crit build even when fighting those WE's, it just takes a lot more effort to get through her bubble/heal.

It's funny that all those who are hysterical about def-WE here - are the guys on SM, who have almost all they pieces with hp/4sec (with 2fleshrender ofc), lol. I think the fact that you drive such hypocrites to hysteria alone is worth playing this build :3

SM may have ''hp/4sec'' like any other tank, since it is (keyword) a tank. (tanks are supposed to be tanky ,duh ). Guess who isn't a tank ? Witch Elf, guess who has stealth, disengage and is a dps class? Witch Elf. Hence the unethical aspect of a WE with all those advantages is that she is also capable to out-sustain almost anyone. The critiscm is of course fully justified in this case.

P.S. Nice first post

PPS. I do hope in the rework, that the WE ''dps build' is buffed and improved( likewise WH should be buffed a bit). It is just the Def build that needs to be abolished from this world.

[kleinbuchstabe]

Thank you guys for your comments but I was hoping to see more constructive feedback rather than hatefest.

You came to the wrong place... This Forum is a super toxic salt desert

[drgozkan]

which def we set up are talking about ? can some one share built for it

[ckm1243]

Just cuz u get destroyed by a certain class dosent mean its busted could be it is bad match up, a big gear and stat gap or more than often drumroll please....... they outplayed you. And if u do have good gear played a long time and are certain that the match up should be somewhat fair mabey u should look in the mirror and ask if ur positioning is perfect is ur rotation perfect did they get a lucky parry does he have a pocket healer?

one thing is clear u guys have never played the class so u have no idea what it is hard for us or the down sides that we get.

u wonder y devs dont listen to us is because alot of u guys are yammering nonsense and it is clear to me u are unfit to determine balencing standards. Anyone can run regen parry riposte u guys cleary dont come to garden of qraph and duel the sweats often enough u think that it is just 1 class that runs this combo is insane and out of touch with reality.

[coldhunter]

SM may have ''hp/4sec'' like any other tank, since it is (keyword) a tank. (tanks are supposed to be tanky ,duh )

Wow, so you play with SnB? No problems than, tanks must be tanky! Oh, wait, you play with 2h, right? So you are not a tank anymore, you just a bruiser and bruiser must NOT be tanky as normal tank,duh . But thing is not that it tank or not, you dont have problems with you hp/4sec because its YOU who using it, right :DDDD?
Oh and one more thing, looks like original devs dont share you "fantasies" about how WE must play, because, you know, they add a DEFENSIVE sets in the game (its probably a big news for you, buddy ^_^). And even more news is coming: novadays devs dont share you fantasies too! So you can prepare youself a barrel for you tears, because if we look at items, that devs add on LV release - we will see a full set for WE with parry and absorb+knifes with self heal! Looks like "DPS Rework" will be you nightmare :3

which def we set up are talking about ? can some one share built for it

Check guild on youtube, "Unleash the Shadows: Ultimate Witch Elf Class Guide for Warhammer Online". Its a core for this build with some explanations.

[Faction69]

It doesn't matter what the devs intend or not cus every class has a defensive set and every class can use regen gear yet WE clearly does it way better than any other class because it has too much base magic damage. The comparison to SM is also dumb bc even aside from the complete difference in damage capability, WE also has stealth and chasing ability while SM has no way to even force a fight against someone who doesn't want to fight them. So no class can beat a regen WE 1v1, yet regen WE can easily force everyone to fight it.

[Farrul]

So you can prepare youself a barrel for you tears, because if we look at items, that devs add on LV release - we will see a full set for WE with parry and absorb+knifes with self heal! Looks like "DPS Rework" will be you nightmare :3

Yes, I can see why you would play a Def WE.

It doesn't matter what the devs intend or not cus every class has a defensive set and every class can use regen gear yet WE clearly does it way better than any other class because it has too much base magic damage. The comparison to SM is also dumb bc even aside from the complete difference in damage capability, WE also has stealth and chasing ability while SM has no way to even force a fight against someone who doesn't want to fight them. So no class can beat a regen WE 1v1, yet regen WE can easily force everyone to fight it.

You forgot to mention stagger 6 sec + selfpunt. More than her performance it is out of a principle that it needs to change,

Assassin dps, stealth classes do typically have in most RPG games:

High singletarget damage
Stealth/can stay hidden.
Disengage tools/tricks
Agility
Singletarget debuffs.

What they do not have, for the sake of balance and sanity is:

Sustainability
High mitigation

Hence it shouldn't be a thing to begin with, if WE wants to behave like a marauder brawler class, it needs to lose Stealth, stagger etc and could gain AOE attacks instead.

[Sinisterror]

Its so funny how brokenly damage works in this game. Meaning in RvR with 1 wb contains 8dps and 8 tanks so 16 out of 24 is in someway attacking you. Old aoe cap was 9, but classes still had 65ft cone aoe melee morales or 40ft aoe within you in melee or ranged,magic or physical dmg or tank. 24ae cap makes no sense when you think that all grp cleanses or heals works on 6 targets. 9cap makes sense.

Oh and the older,faster and better working Gcd 1.15s that made 8 abilities in 10seconds the norm vs 6 skills in 10 seconds we have now. So in small scale nothing dies because game flow is 25% slower favoring casting anything over 1.5s(new gcd) which is heals spesifikly when healing full party or high heals on single target.

We also had no dmg cap on Morals, both realms had 50% aoe heal debuffs on dps healers btw. it was much wider range of specs&buffs/debuffs available to all. Wh/We didnt have Charge and they didnt need it, still dont and shouldnt have it or we can start handing out stealth abilities to other classes if we do that or we/wh will be only classes with all of the thing(people crying about no charge on class, Odjira Fixes this and available to all)

Same for shield wp/dok, they shouldnt get shield, it ruined iconic specs and the classes are in weird place where dps can over dps actual dps classes but doesnt have any kind of Ap using melee grp heal, and that was the only skill that made wp/dok dps specs have any grp heal and now its locked behind shield.

Shield spec at least worked before healer patch. Also removed spirit dmg of Devour essence+Consume essence/Divine strike so going to the direction of removing magic dmg from melee and homogenizing even more.

[nocturnalguest]

Hence it shouldn't be a thing to begin with, if WE wants to behave like a marauder brawler class, it needs to lose Stealth, stagger etc and could gain AOE attacks instead.

Oh, really nice one, very lore friendly

Also @coldhunter "devs" you refer to have nothing to do with balancing and itemization FYI, sweet summer child. Balance is one group, PvE building is another group, itemization was done by another group with consultations in inner circle of players. So DPS rework may surprise you.

Can i please also add into derailing of this thread?
1. I dont quite get how mature persons can be this childish seeing things only black&white?
2. You all, folks, have access to killboard and can easily look up things. All your wild claims are very easily checkable.
3. No, def WE is not winning everything by default. In current scheme (and its easy to check) it almost certainly loses to:
- solo roaming dps healers, and actually all of them AM/RP+2h WP (almost without any chance), those kill it doing ~9-20k dmg (AM needs not more then 9k, RP ~13-15, and WP may even go up to 25k);
- properly prepared tanks (chosen, sm, kotbs (current version), snb ib etc), they kinda have to do 25-30k dmg into it tho;
- good rSW or engi, they kill it with not more then 8-9k dmg done.
WH and lions are purely statistically 50/50, WH is obvious and for lions i havent done in depth analyze but i suspect its spec related.
4. How to check it - type the name of any def WE that is BiS and comes to your mind (ideally few names) in killboard, switch "solo kills only", pick their deaths, scroll down and see the freud (take into account solo kills only, look up map position, check damage done (if its 300 dmg and the spot of the kill is in some weird place like lava or something discard such kill, literally discard any strange record kill) and then also check person who's got heal to figure if it could potentially get an outside heal or not (in most cases the answer is no)).

P.S. I can totally get people who are pointing out very obvious design flows of WE being bruiser tank instead of stealth assasin, but sadly thats not how one should balance things around. And AoR/RoR is way off the lore and have always been, so those are not actual arguments folks.