WE - Why is there no Burn Armor equivalent?

[Faction69]

The equivalent for WE to Burn Armor is not vehement blades, it's the jump and slow opener. WH doesn't get that, it does get an analogue to vehement blades though.

Burn armor is also not particularly good (aside from its range) because Torment ignores armor (and is so powerful that it still outdamages razor strike even with tons of investment) so you get much less value out of it except in a group.

WE is just flat better than WH in the most relevant scenario to the two classes, very small scale, so whining and wanting to take WH's tiny little bit of utility away too is just selfish.

Ok then lets still reframe this -- would ANYONE prefer shadow leap over burn armor? Have you ever actually tried using this ability?

Its range is so short and puts you so far from your target, I'm not exaggerating it is literally unusable unless you are specced to be able to use On Your knees to do a ranged knockdown, you will still not even be in range to use a melee ability on your target. At that point you may as well just not have popped stealth on your target because you will surely be detaunted by the time you actually reach them

In a perfect world yes you can hit torments but once feinted positioning runs out or if you have no latency you may not be able to reliably get behind your target. The bonus to auto attack damage and finishers is significant by having an armor debuff as well

Shadow leap is actually better than burn armor for any build that uses armor ignore main attack outside of group play situations with other phys dmg. So yes, of course I would prefer it. The only time I use burn armor as BAL spec is when I need 2 combo points fast at range to finish someone off with absolution. The armor debuff basically does nothing.

Would anyone prefer Exit Wound to Witchbrew? There are a lot of these and WE wins out overall which is why regen WE is as endemic as cockroaches.

[Panzer80]

Because you have Pierce Armor, Wracking Pains, Brew, Leap and Vehement Blades. All things that WH doesn't have an equivalent to. Why does WH not have spirit damage on "Burn Heretic"? I'd assume because WE has Wracking Pains. I'm not for mirrors, but I do like things to make sense. Poisoning fits WE design is the best answer, although anything with burn in the title should not really be doing physical damage (especially if it's using a torch.) WE should not have 30 feet attacks with daggers either, but stronger close-range finishers in contrast to the WH's pistol range.

[germ32]

The equivalent for WE to Burn Armor is not vehement blades, it's the jump and slow opener. WH doesn't get that, it does get an analogue to vehement blades though.

Burn armor is also not particularly good (aside from its range) because Torment ignores armor (and is so powerful that it still outdamages razor strike even with tons of investment) so you get much less value out of it except in a group.

WE is just flat better than WH in the most relevant scenario to the two classes, very small scale, so whining and wanting to take WH's tiny little bit of utility away too is just selfish.

Ok then lets still reframe this -- would ANYONE prefer shadow leap over burn armor? Have you ever actually tried using this ability?

Its range is so short and puts you so far from your target, I'm not exaggerating it is literally unusable unless you are specced to be able to use On Your knees to do a ranged knockdown, you will still not even be in range to use a melee ability on your target. At that point you may as well just not have popped stealth on your target because you will surely be detaunted by the time you actually reach them

In a perfect world yes you can hit torments but once feinted positioning runs out or if you have no latency you may not be able to reliably get behind your target. The bonus to auto attack damage and finishers is significant by having an armor debuff as well

Shadow leap is actually better than burn armor for any build that uses armor ignore main attack outside of group play situations with other phys dmg. So yes, of course I would prefer it. The only time I use burn armor as BAL spec is when I need 2 combo points fast at range to finish someone off with absolution. The armor debuff basically does nothing.

Would anyone prefer Exit Wound to Witchbrew? There are a lot of these and WE wins out overall which is why regen WE is as endemic as cockroaches.

Again, shadow leap has a 30 ft range compared to the 45ft of pounce, and you hang in the air for like .5 of a second so if your target was moving at the point where you cast it you will still be out of range after landing because it does not track you to where your target moved to, it puts you where your target was when you casted it. I just dont see the argument for using this ability given that witch elves have a ranged snare, its honestly crap you might as well just not break stealth if you are out of range at that point

[germ32]

Because you have Pierce Armor, Wracking Pains, Brew, Leap and Vehement Blades. All things that WH doesn't have an equivalent to. Why does WH not have spirit damage on "Burn Heretic"? I'd assume because WE has Wracking Pains. I'm not for mirrors, but I do like things to make sense. Poisoning fits WE design is the best answer, although anything with burn in the title should not really be doing physical damage (especially if it's using a torch.) WE should not have 30 feet attacks with daggers either, but stronger close-range finishers in contrast to the WH's pistol range.

Fair point, but would a WH actually prefer vehement blades over burn armor I kind of dont think that would be the case if you could just use the damage on movememnt poison when you break stealth (which is what most witch elves use at the moment anyway). I can understand your reasoning about the thematic balance but in this case vehement blades used to be how burn armor worked for WHs on live -- I just dont follow why we get shadow leap and whs get burn armor, one is CLEARLY better than the other

I dont understand how anyone can make a case for using shadow leap, on paper yes it looks like witch elves have pounce -- try actually using it, it functions incredibly poorly by having such a short range and horrible tracking.

We dont need to compare every single ability to have a discussion about burn armor honestly, that is really unproductive. Yes witch elves have pierce armor, WHs get repel blasphemy instead. Burn armor is a core ability that doesnt require any spec investment so in a way its sort of apples to oranges to try to list all these other wh abilities

For all the gripe about how strong witchbrew is, I don't see what the issue is with mirroring something that would encourage people to not use witchbrew, not to mention it would give a wb at least a small reason to include a WE given that its an aoe debuff

[Sever1n]

If you really want find answer to that - ask devs, only they know what logic was used when we got pounce and wh got burn armor. And again its your opinion that pounce + snare is bad, i saw ton of good use of this skill so their value not that clear for everybody as u claim. At this point i dont like 2 of 3 openers that wh have, including burn. If u have sugestions for rework, feel free to do them till we wait dps patch, maybe if they will be reasonable devs will listen like they finaly did about 2h kotbs and sm/bork untied from stances punts.