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BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

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ziomek
Posts: 48

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#21 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:11 pm

Mattia1981 wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:20 pm
ziomek wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:50 pm
...u give up tactic spot, lose CD, and dependent on hitting a healer in first place (good luck vs good ones, unless their team is dead, at which point they are already dead anyway).

cd is perma, consistent dmg buff. there is no comparison.
re choppa : how many 2h choppa u see using outgoing?? hmmm i wonder why, huh :D
That's why i pointed out healing debuff outging :lol:

Merry Christams!
merry Christmas

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Tankbeardz
Posts: 575

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#22 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:19 pm

Mattia1981 wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:02 am
Tankbeardz wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:39 am
Mattia1981 wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:34 pm


Crimson death for wb is ok but for 6 man it's so and so.... hastened doom is fine too. But you know, you need to survive as 2 handed, and you won't without bolstering anger/parry tactic. And the BG deal phisical dmg only, so it's more valueable as debuffer on caster and ranged classes in general than versus melee ones. I think chocking fury is undervalued. When you have a salvage/monstro built mara in your party you can drain heals and ap out of every enemies, but i repeat you need to survive and you won't unless the healers in party are the best player ever seen and can do the work for 3 instead of 2. That's a combo where the BG could really shine in 6 man.
Go Crimson or go home for 6v6. TenTon is right...Crimson, on-demand KD, and Punt are all key. There is also the wounds debuff, armor debuff, crit debuff (not enough people use this - it debuffs attack AND heal crit). It's not about your damage...it's about the damage you help your group do. Also, HD is useless in 6v6 unless you are going solo because you won't be able to peel off to guard (the MOST important ability) someone who needs it since you are 600 feet behind their back line.
Ofc if you would had read the entire posts instead of just jumping in it for the pleasure to get an opinion on another opinion and without understanding that the matter isn't dealing damage as you pointed (and some tactics indicated by TenTon are intended to deal dmg not debuff) you would had avoid a part of your comment: furthermore if i do some counts on the benefit from outgoing heals less 50% and the benefit 10% more crit chance ( i remember you that a crit increase the dmg from 30% to 50 %) it's evident to me that the BG role is much more debuff healers than aiding in other dd killing. So the answer to the questioner is to choose between its best tactics abilities. If you always run a way without trying to run another that doesn't mean that your one is correct/the faster: try to believe.
And what 6v6 experience do you have besides the insanely bad pug solo queue? Mind killer is a **** spec for 6v6. Tell me how the **** you are going to get back to guard anyone dying if you are sitting in their back line? I'm waiting.

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wachlarz
Posts: 316

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#23 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:21 pm

ziomek wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:56 pm
so much bad bg advice here omg...

crimson death, aoe snare, 2h, wounds debuff and kd are all mandatory. anti detaunt is useless, hd wont work vs good healers in caledor woods who can keep distance, and aoe snare mandatory vs order mobile comp (sw/wl) and to offset kobs and ib aoe snares, crimson huge dps boost for everyone in team.

wachlarz u should stop posting srsly.
I think we talk about solo ranked, not yours dream team.

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Mattia1981
Posts: 56

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#24 » Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:40 pm

Tankbeardz wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:19 pm
Mattia1981 wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:02 am
Tankbeardz wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:39 am


Go Crimson or go home for 6v6. TenTon is right...Crimson, on-demand KD, and Punt are all key. There is also the wounds debuff, armor debuff, crit debuff (not enough people use this - it debuffs attack AND heal crit). It's not about your damage...it's about the damage you help your group do. Also, HD is useless in 6v6 unless you are going solo because you won't be able to peel off to guard (the MOST important ability) someone who needs it since you are 600 feet behind their back line.
Ofc if you would had read the entire posts instead of just jumping in it for the pleasure to get an opinion on another opinion and without understanding that the matter isn't dealing damage as you pointed (and some tactics indicated by TenTon are intended to deal dmg not debuff) you would had avoid a part of your comment: furthermore if i do some counts on the benefit from outgoing heals less 50% and the benefit 10% more crit chance ( i remember you that a crit increase the dmg from 30% to 50 %) it's evident to me that the BG role is much more debuff healers than aiding in other dd killing. So the answer to the questioner is to choose between its best tactics abilities. If you always run a way without trying to run another that doesn't mean that your one is correct/the faster: try to believe.
And what 6v6 experience do you have besides the insanely bad pug solo queue? Mind killer is a **** spec for 6v6. Tell me how the **** you are going to get back to guard anyone dying if you are sitting in their back line? I'm waiting.
I'm still waiting for a decent conversation with you, but due you behaviour i doubt i can have any, so my answer will have the tone you deserve.

I now try to give a sense to action of fighting where you can' t see: do you realize when the healers start to kite to avoid the WE (IF they can avoid we) and mara?? And the other team focus on the we/marauder? Well, i'm there near to them all with my guad on putting it on the need of focused one.... try to imagine it out, where all the other are, because the healer will need a guard.... OFC an experienced player such as you already knows that splitting the party isn't a very good idea in almost situation... So, can you see it now? im exactly with everyone else, around 30 feet range from my party members. Or maybe your immense experience suggest you otherwise: your teammate tank punted the focused healer 100 feet from everyone..... that's it?

Merry Christmas, beware of crimson gitfs!

Tankbeardz
Posts: 575

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#25 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:49 am

Mattia1981 wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:40 pm
Tankbeardz wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:19 pm
Mattia1981 wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:02 am


Ofc if you would had read the entire posts instead of just jumping in it for the pleasure to get an opinion on another opinion and without understanding that the matter isn't dealing damage as you pointed (and some tactics indicated by TenTon are intended to deal dmg not debuff) you would had avoid a part of your comment: furthermore if i do some counts on the benefit from outgoing heals less 50% and the benefit 10% more crit chance ( i remember you that a crit increase the dmg from 30% to 50 %) it's evident to me that the BG role is much more debuff healers than aiding in other dd killing. So the answer to the questioner is to choose between its best tactics abilities. If you always run a way without trying to run another that doesn't mean that your one is correct/the faster: try to believe.
And what 6v6 experience do you have besides the insanely bad pug solo queue? Mind killer is a **** spec for 6v6. Tell me how the **** you are going to get back to guard anyone dying if you are sitting in their back line? I'm waiting.
I'm still waiting for a decent conversation with you, but due you behaviour i doubt i can have any, so my answer will have the tone you deserve.

I now try to give a sense to action of fighting where you can' t see: do you realize when the healers start to kite to avoid the WE (IF they can avoid we) and mara?? And the other team focus on the we/marauder? Well, i'm there near to them all with my guad on putting it on the need of focused one.... try to imagine it out, where all the other are, because the healer will need a guard.... OFC an experienced player such as you already knows that splitting the party isn't a very good idea in almost situation... So, can you see it now? im exactly with everyone else, around 30 feet range from my party members. Or maybe your immense experience suggest you otherwise: your teammate tank punted the focused healer 100 feet from everyone..... that's it?

Merry Christmas, beware of crimson gitfs!
Listen kid, you are the one who turned into a giant dildo rager. Pretty sure you don't have a clue on how to tank in any situation. Your suggestion is to have the healers follow the tanks and what, sit on flags? DPS isn't the only thing you need to be ready to swap to. bahahahahaha Enjoy derailing this thread -- I'm out.

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Mattia1981
Posts: 56

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#26 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:28 am

Tankbeardz wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:49 am
Mattia1981 wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:40 pm
Tankbeardz wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:19 pm


And what 6v6 experience do you have besides the insanely bad pug solo queue? Mind killer is a **** spec for 6v6. Tell me how the **** you are going to get back to guard anyone dying if you are sitting in their back line? I'm waiting.
I'm still waiting for a decent conversation with you, but due you behaviour i doubt i can have any, so my answer will have the tone you deserve.

I now try to give a sense to action of fighting where you can' t see: do you realize when the healers start to kite to avoid the WE (IF they can avoid we) and mara?? And the other team focus on the we/marauder? Well, i'm there near to them all with my guad on putting it on the need of focused one.... try to imagine it out, where all the other are, because the healer will need a guard.... OFC an experienced player such as you already knows that splitting the party isn't a very good idea in almost situation... So, can you see it now? im exactly with everyone else, around 30 feet range from my party members. Or maybe your immense experience suggest you otherwise: your teammate tank punted the focused healer 100 feet from everyone..... that's it?

Merry Christmas, beware of crimson gitfs!
Listen kid, you are the one who turned into a giant dildo rager. Pretty sure you don't have a clue on how to tank in any situation. Your suggestion is to have the healers follow the tanks and what, sit on flags? DPS isn't the only thing you need to be ready to swap to. bahahahahaha Enjoy derailing this thread -- I'm out.
Jumped into discussion without reading the post objective, sentencing with no reason given, donating unnecessary, unwanted and unhappy opinions, driving the discussion in an area that is all but relevant to tip asked by the person that opened this post: you even dare to give to say derailing the thread to me? MOREOVER it's the build you pointed out with its higher burst to be irrilevant for a BG IN 6 man (imo), but i have the grace to try to explain my reasoning, you never puppy guy!. - Here just to answer your last ironic but pathetic guess- no the healers have to run opposite side of the tanks, possibly jumping into enemy melees arms at your useless 600 feet far away from party (wow! do the game show portraits at that distance? i think you are the only one in the history of server being able to do, GZ)- And hey, you give up so fast, are you sure you call yourself out? Can I assert: "Mission accomplished about this child, i learned him a bit education, to explain things, to listen other opinions, to stick to the main question to understand and solve the main matter?" I hope yes, wasn't that hard this time, unfortunetely is not always that easy and the word is full of young assertive boys as you..... I just wonder if the growth up will bring you some discernment or you are hopeless. Ofc nothing personal, just a mission i'm on to sensibilize the unlucky ones didn' t had the luck to get an education by a good family, i don' t know for lazy parents or just because they cannot understand the easiest explaination given, in that case a psyco is required, not me.

User avatar
Mattia1981
Posts: 56

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#27 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:30 am

Tankbeardz wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:49 am
Mattia1981 wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 10:40 pm
Tankbeardz wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:19 pm


And what 6v6 experience do you have besides the insanely bad pug solo queue? Mind killer is a **** spec for 6v6. Tell me how the **** you are going to get back to guard anyone dying if you are sitting in their back line? I'm waiting.
I'm still waiting for a decent conversation with you, but due you behaviour i doubt i can have any, so my answer will have the tone you deserve.

I now try to give a sense to action of fighting where you can' t see: do you realize when the healers start to kite to avoid the WE (IF they can avoid we) and mara?? And the other team focus on the we/marauder? Well, i'm there near to them all with my guad on putting it on the need of focused one.... try to imagine it out, where all the other are, because the healer will need a guard.... OFC an experienced player such as you already knows that splitting the party isn't a very good idea in almost situation... So, can you see it now? im exactly with everyone else, around 30 feet range from my party members. Or maybe your immense experience suggest you otherwise: your teammate tank punted the focused healer 100 feet from everyone..... that's it?

Merry Christmas, beware of crimson gitfs!
Listen kid, you are the one who turned into a giant dildo rager. Pretty sure you don't have a clue on how to tank in any situation. Your suggestion is to have the healers follow the tanks and what, sit on flags? DPS isn't the only thing you need to be ready to swap to. bahahahahaha Enjoy derailing this thread -- I'm out.
Jumped into discussion without reading the post objective, sentencing with no reason given, donating unnecessary, unwanted and unhappy opinions, driving the discussion in an area that is all but relevant to tip asked by the person that opened this post: you even dare to give to say derailing the thread to me? MOREOVER it's the build you pointed out with its higher burst to be irrilevant for a BG IN 6 man (imo), but i have the grace to try to explain my reasoning, you never puppy guy!. - Here just to answer your last ironic but pathetic guess- no the healers have to run opposite side of the tanks, possibly jumping into enemy melees arms at your useless 600 feet far away from party (wow! do the game show portraits at that distance? i think you are the only one in the history of server being able to do, GZ)- And hey, you give up so fast, are you sure you call yourself out? Can I assert: "Mission accomplished about this child, i learned him a bit education, to explain things, to listen other opinions, to stick to the main question to understand and solve the main matter?" I hope yes, wasn't that hard this time, unfortunetely is not always that easy and the word is full of young assertive boys as you..... I just wonder if the growth up will bring you some discernment or you are hopeless. Ofc nothing personal, just a mission i'm on to sensibilize the unlucky ones didn' t had the luck to get an education by a good family, i don' t know for lazy parents or just because they cannot understand the easiest explaination given, in that case a psyco is required, not me.

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toffikx
Posts: 181

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#28 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:59 pm

As far as I understand, OP is asking for possible builds for the 6v6 solo ranked. I'll throw my two cents on this then.

You have the classic 40/70 BG small scale build. The one that Adamska2/Azeyune posted. It's low risk, high reward. Abilities in left tree synergise well with each other, on demand KD is great and Crimson Death is in my opinion arguably one of the best abilties the small scale blackguard has. It hits hard, it's aoe, and provides crit chance boost (especially good if you will have people crit debuffing you). Wave of Scorn is a great gap closer and can keep pressure off from your defensive target. And who will not want the extra parry through Anger Drives Me?

So why is this build good not only for group play roam and sc/6v6, but also 6v6 solo ranked? Because it's universal, fit for every situation, and as written earlier, it's low risk, high reward build. There's simply not much that can go wrong with this build.

Regarding abilties in right tree for 6v6 solo ranked ;
Unstoppable Fury and Soul Killer are highly situational, with Soul Killer being risky too. Auto detaunt can perhaps make sense if you are hitting a mdps that aoe detaunts. If you are thinking about targeting healers, a decent one will either not detaunt you at all (since he will not be anticipating to have problems with a single blackgaurd dps) or he'll detaunt anything else that hits him, as in mdps or rdps. You never know what a bad healer will do. With Soul Killer it's more or less the same story. Will the healers keep sufficient distant from the melee fights? Will they knock you back/stagger if you come close enough? This is why I call these tactics situational. Because they depend on the skill level of your enemies. And about Soul Killer being risky, if you will move out for a healer (that has atleast some distance from your fight) you will move out of your guard range, making your guard target take way more damage, and perhaps die in the process.

Regarding Elite Training and Bolstering Anger;
At 40/70 you can pick the usual stuff from left tree while still getting Elite Training and something else in the right tree. Elite Training is decent. But is it worth sacrificing for abilties in the middle tree? Debatable, situational and a personal no from me. I'd still get the safe options from middle tree. But not saying it's set in stone either. Bolstering Anger is too far up in the right tree and you'll have to sacrifice too much in order to get it. It's also more of a solo ability.

TLDR; Left/mid tree build is low risk/high reward. Universal, good for every situation.
Tactics in right tree are situational, and can backfire heavily in certain situations. Elite training is debatable, Bolstering Anger locks you out of a good build and it's mostly a solo ability.

Cheers
Last edited by toffikx on Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Akilinus
Posts: 267

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#29 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 1:01 pm

The build that Adamska linked is mostly what people use. Too many paperhammer players who voice their loud opinion without ever having tested it or played anything outside of pug sc.
Kkomrade 80 Zealot Akilinuz 75 Chosen
Mauzer 60 Kotbs Kkomrades 70 Black Guard
Rhodesia 50 SH

[Brotherman]

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Mattia1981
Posts: 56

Re: BG 2H ranked scenario Build/Bis

Post#30 » Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:15 pm

toffikx wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:59 pm
As far as I understand, OP is asking for possible builds for the 6v6 solo ranked. I'll throw my two cents on this then.

You have the classic 40/70 BG small scale build. The one that Adamska2/Azeyune posted. It's low risk, high reward. Abilities in left tree synergise well with each other, on demand KD is great and Crimson Death is in my opinion arguably one of the best abilties the small scale blackguard has. It hits hard, it's aoe, and provides crit chance boost (especially good if you will have people crit debuffing you). Wave of Scorn is a great gap closer and can keep pressure off of your defensive target. And who will not want the extra parry through Anger Drives Me?

So why is this build good not only for group play roam and sc/6v6, but also 6v6 solo ranked? Because it's universal, fit for every situation, and as written earlier, it's low risk, high reward buid. There's simply not much that can go wrong with this build.

Regarding abilties in right tree for 6v6 solo ranked ;
Unstoppable Fury and Soul Killer are highly situational, with Soul Killer being risky too. Auto detaunt can perhaps make sense if you are hitting a mdps that aoe detaunts. If you are thinking about targeting healers, a decent one will either not detaunt you at all (since he will not be anticipating to have problems with a single blackgaurd dps) or he'll detaunt anything else that hits him, as in mdps or rdps. You never know what a bad healer will do. With Soul Killer it's more or less the same story. Will the healers keep sufficient distant from the melee fights? Will they knock you back/stagger if you come close enough? This is why I call these tactics situational. Because they depend on the skill level of your enemies. And about Soul Killer being risky, if you will move out for a healer (that has atleast some distance from your fight) you will move out of your guard range, making your guard target take way more damage, and perhaps die in the process.

Regarding Elite Training and Bolstering Anger;
At 40/70 you can pick the usual stuff from left tree while still getting Elite Training and something else in the right tree. Elite Training is decent. But is it worth sacrificing for abilties in the middle tree? Debatable, situational and a personal no from me. I'd still get the safe options from middle tree. But not saying it's set in stone either. Bolstering Anger is too far up in the right tree and you'll have to sacrifice too much in order to get it. It's also more of a solo ability.

TDLR; Left/mid tree build is low risk/high reward. Universal, good for every situation.
Tactics in right tree are situational, and can backfire heavily in certain situations. Elite training is debatable, Bolstering Anger locks you out of a good build and it's mostly a solo ability.

Cheers
The Adamska2 build is the ome i used to run till rank 30-31 2 handed, and rewarded me as the best tank dd killing blows and renown in almost scenarios,
good even against some lowbies 40 rank wh and other melees.
I have no doubt about it rapresent the most generic build for 2handed BG.

Once reached the 40/70 imo a 2handed still is risky till a very proficiscent gear, so you have to suffer a bit and bring some pve on (i personally dislike totally s&b bg).

A coordinated cc it's hard unless you play since very long time with same players and no communication is needed, i mean can have the feeling with someone but that cannot be enough. If everyone already know what to do and what are going to do teammates it's ok; otherwise a discord is required, but that should be a premade. I don't suffer the loss of kd on path of malice, because of this: i can't even remember the times i been frustarted when tried to use it on someone and realized a sec before using it that target was immune to effect, due someone else cc that granted that. Unfortunately this happens even with other cc abilities even punt, that is the best strenght of a bg imo, has been nullified by a useless aoe punt.
6 man pug is risky if you don' t have feeling with your groupmates; this is an obvious consideration, however relevant about the strategy you would use depending on opponents. I give an ipothetic example but based on ipothetic premade. I have to face 2 tanks, 1 bw, 1 engi, 1 rp and 1 am. I cannot leave no one unguarded because before i could reach any of them, o
the focused teammate or me will be dead; but we can't neither just stay here suffering their ranged dps without dealing any damage. At this point reaching any of upmentioned dd/healer has the same difficulty. There is any valuable reason that can influence a we/mara choosing the bw or engi instead of one of the 2 healers? You could argue "positioning", because the first squishy target should be the focused one and i would agree, but: in my limited experience such kind of situation a healer will almost always stay next to the ranged dps (around 30 feet, do you agree?). There i go to reach my dps to put the guard on if necessary and to use my wave of scorn to fill gap with healers. The benefits Crimson death grants at that point are largely overcome by soul killer, opponents are drown out of the most important class support source and under pressure.
This reasoning of putting pressure on healers can be applied to any enemy composition. The timing of cc will the teammates do will make the difference. I think you can agree with me that coordinated cc and you will never been able to do that in a pug.

I suggest your build for pugs not premades, even if sounds strange to your ears.

Greetings man and merry Christmas!

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