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New WE player - can't kill healers?

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Koro
Posts: 19

New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#1 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:16 pm

So...
I was playing Warhammer very long time ago when it was first released. I've been playing here for a month in rather casual fashion (couple hours a day), and enjoying it so far but I'm struggling a lot in any PvP content.
Image
Question is - are WE reworked here to fulfill some new, secret role that I don't understand or is it normal that no matter what I do I cannot kill any healer in scenarios even in pure 1vs1 situations. I'm not talking only about those tanky Warpriests - I'm talking about all of the healer types.

Maybe someone could advise me a build for scenarios/PvP roaming where WE fulfills it's role of being an assasin? Or maybe I'm doing it wrong and class is expected to be a brawler now with some new metabuild?
Another possible explanation for this happening (by "this" i mean difference in experience I had when playing WE back in the day) is - everyone doing scenarios pre-40 here is a twink and it's expected that any new players compete with serious disadvantage and things will go back to normal later on - will they?

I don't mean to offend anyone - I'm amazed by the effort of current development group supporting the game after so many years since official developper ditched it. I'm just looking for some answers mainly cause ... well - from what I remember this game is heavily focused on PvP and each class has assigned a role in different PvP situations (Sieges, Battlegrounds, Scenarios etc), and from what I understand only role WE is good at is surprise ganking of the squishies (mages, healers etc) so if that doesn't work... then what is the point if you can play a class with role that actually does something usefull like brawler, AOE DD, tank or healer?

By now readers of this post probably get general idea of what kind of advice I'm asking for. Is it normal that a toon cannot accomplish pretty much only role it's supposed to be designed (at leas originally designed) for? What am I doing wrong?

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CeeJay89
Posts: 134

Re: New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#2 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:00 pm

Spoiler:
Koro wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 4:16 pm
So...
I was playing Warhammer very long time ago when it was first released. I've been playing here for a month in rather casual fashion (couple hours a day), and enjoying it so far but I'm struggling a lot in any PvP content.
Image
Question is - are WE reworked here to fulfill some new, secret role that I don't understand or is it normal that no matter what I do I cannot kill any healer in scenarios even in pure 1vs1 situations. I'm not talking only about those tanky Warpriests - I'm talking about all of the healer types.

Maybe someone could advise me a build for scenarios/PvP roaming where WE fulfills it's role of being an assasin? Or maybe I'm doing it wrong and class is expected to be a brawler now with some new metabuild?
Another possible explanation for this happening (by "this" i mean difference in experience I had when playing WE back in the day) is - everyone doing scenarios pre-40 here is a twink and it's expected that any new players compete with serious disadvantage and things will go back to normal later on - will they?

I don't mean to offend anyone - I'm amazed by the effort of current development group supporting the game after so many years since official developper ditched it. I'm just looking for some answers mainly cause ... well - from what I remember this game is heavily focused on PvP and each class has assigned a role in different PvP situations (Sieges, Battlegrounds, Scenarios etc), and from what I understand only role WE is good at is surprise ganking of the squishies (mages, healers etc) so if that doesn't work... then what is the point if you can play a class with role that actually does something usefull like brawler, AOE DD, tank or healer?

By now readers of this post probably get general idea of what kind of advice I'm asking for. Is it normal that a toon cannot accomplish pretty much only role it's supposed to be designed (at leas originally designed) for? What am I doing wrong?
To be honest, a properly played/specced healer in similar gear shouldn't be killed by anyone in a 1v1. By shouldn't, I mean they probably won't be. Between self heals and detaunt, you'll run out of AP long before they run out of HP. If you can't burst them in your first 3s knockdown, then it's probably done.

That said, if you really want to focus on killing healers, you'll need to spec into the incoming heal debuff and run the outgoing heal debuff kiss. That will be 75% reduced heals on the healer themselves.

Sarnai
Posts: 84

Re: New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#3 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:04 pm

WE/WH are in the midst of a minor identity crisis at the moment. Heals are strong, sets are defensive, and everyone is stacking ini these days to reduce chance to crit. The current cheese meta is destealth>KD>burst burst burst and hope it's dead. And don't forget your heal debuff Kiss.

Or find another WE friend and tag-team melt targets.
WH looking for gunbad left

Koro
Posts: 19

Re: New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#4 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:12 pm

CeeJay89 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:00 pm
To be honest, a properly played/specced healer in similar gear shouldn't be killed by anyone in a 1v1.
What do you mean shouldn't? So are healers new masters of 1 vs 1 winning 100% of fights that are in equal gear and such is by design/conscious devs decision?
Which makes purpose of WE what exactly? Don't play that class cause it has no role to accomplish, unless outgeared or 2vs1 in which case roles doesn't even matter ? I mean seriously what am I missing here?

I loved playing WE when the game released - it was very challenging but also rewarding back then. Now I just don't recognize this class at all.
Last edited by Koro on Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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toffikx
Posts: 255

Re: New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#5 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:14 pm

All healer classes have a detaunt (50% reduced damage taken from one target) with a cooldown and duration of 15 seconds. So it can be perma applied if the healer only got hit by one player. And as written above, a decent healer should not get killed in 1v1. The game is made around groups fighting groups, not individuals.

With Buffhead or Aura addon you can track if you are either detaunted or not. Try asking in the advice channel of RoR discord about how to set it up.

Koro
Posts: 19

Re: New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#6 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:19 pm

I'd like to ask some players that are here since a longer time and had occasion do observe a server development/direction. Would you say it makes sense to continue playing WE while waiting for some changes to the class or does that situation we have now persist over the years and probably will persist in further future making it more sense for even dedicated WE player that loved original WE gameplay to swich class?

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Aurandilaz
Posts: 1794

Re: New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#7 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:21 pm

If the healer knows what it is doing, 1 single enemy dps, regardless of career choice, cannot kill it. You could make the argument that a WH/WE with both inc+outgoing healdebuffs can drop them low with initial burst, but it still doesnt mean a kill considering every healer has access to detaunt + 2 heal pots + 1 absorb pot + various CC tools to prevent actual death event.
As others said, the class is having some identity issues, since you are neither a frontline brawler with medium armor like other mdps, nor a proper warband class, so your niche is ganking, yet, you are unable to finish various targets due to how strong defensive options are in this game.

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Martok
Posts: 980
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Re: New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#8 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:56 pm

Aurandilaz wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:21 pm
As others said, the class is having some identity issues...

The class is always having identity issues, always deficient in some manner, always in need of a buff here or a tweak there and always under-performing against this or that class in this or that situation. At least according to those in the Witch Elf community, there is always something wrong.

Ask the logical question. If the class is always so fracked up, how is it you have WE players in full Whatever Gear They Want doing hundreds of thousands in damage anytime they half-ass an SC? The primary answer to that question isn't to be found buried somewhere deep inside the super-secret-hidden-vault housing the super-secret-formula for applying the specific class mechanics. The primary answer lies in the realization the product found to the right of the equal sign in that equation is expressed as "easy mode." If, of course:

1. You play this game to have fun
2. You find a group to play with
3. You play in Warbands and SC's with the goal of just helping your team win without worrying about what someone else thinks your purpose in life is

That easy mode gets even easier if you apply the mechanic which allows you to bypass worrying about the global cool downs, but you will have to ask someone else about that.

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sighy
Posts: 74

Re: New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#9 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:22 pm

Leveling, in this game is generally not easy and there is a whole bunch of factors playing into it ranging from having to play against 40/80+full invader whatever, which takes no dmg and oneshots you from level16 or so.

But as far as specifically WE go, in the endgame they have very powerful single target damage(some would claim the most), morale pump/drain and make for excellent scouts.

Koro
Posts: 19

Re: New WE player - can't kill healers?

Post#10 » Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:31 pm

Martok - that's kinda the answer I was hoping for - something to help me make a conscious decision about a reroll.

Just to confirm the way I understand posts here and summarize:

1. Class has been unable to fulfill the role it was originally designed for since some time (it's not a recent problem) there aren't any plans or talks among the devs about fixing it to workable condition making it more than probable that situation won't change in the nearest future.

2. Status of current mechanics exists due to general conclusion that it's how things "should" be. It's not a mistake made in some recent patch, not an oversight, not effect of unoptimized gear or competing against only twink characters. Gearing up/optimizing build won't result in changing of the current state of things, waiting for fixes won't result in it either cause there most likely won't be any.

3. If I want to play WE i should do it in "easy mode" not caring about dmg numbers, actually being usefull for anything or my purpose in life. Maybe get someone to play in duo so two players can have a feeling of actually having one working character doing what it's supposed to do.

Is this correct?

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