Is WP dps viable?

[bloodi]

The class will not and should never be able to out dps a class with 3 spec dedicated to damage.

Each one of them dedicated to one niche of damage, its all over the place in WAR, you can see it on the zealot/RP mirror, if what you say were true, the other 2 healing classes would pale in comparison to them, a class with 3 specs dedicated to healing (or damage, if you activate the mechanic, how volatile things are uh?). They have Single target, over time and Group dedicated healing trees, just like other dps classes have the same, BW/Sorc for example follow the same pattern.

So since we all know what you just said is not true, the problem is actually, how to tweak them to fill one niche only when they are capable of doing both, you could see it with the last iteration of melee healing Wp/DoK, since they need to be in melee to heal, logic or lack of, dictates that you should have higher output to make up for it, which made them either too good when they could perform or terribly bad as always when they could not get into melee range, this is sadly, the definition of a broken class, too good when it can do its work and worthless when it cant, which is why it got rolled back.

Now on the other hand, we had the AM/Shaman changes, their healing output was too much but they kinda "worked", by that i mean, it was better than their 150ft heal spells, as it should be but once you got a competent group to cover you up, it was too good but still that didnt make them conceptually flawed, just made them warrant a nerf on that output, sadly spaghetti code issues made them get reverted.

With this awful wall of text what i mean is that your logic makes no sense and Wp/DoK just need a mechanic/stance/toggle/magical tiara that converts them into a superior melee version while gutting everything else so they have to choose.

And thats for wrath, after all this time i truly believe that healing melee is just not something we can achieve and should just make it a class that can fill the other role, the tank one, how, who the **** knows but that surely is more plausible than a melee healer.

[Foltestik]

Yes..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izMfjv5 ... e=youtu.be

lol Masacra worst player on server after chineshere i have him like + milion on my sorc and i almost dont play her

i really wish to see same players damazkron or K/D ratio

[Azarael]

Now on the other hand, we had the AM/Shaman changes, their healing output was too much but they kinda "worked", by that i mean, it was better than their 150ft heal spells, as it should be but once you got a competent group to cover you up, it was too good but still that didnt make them conceptually flawed, just made them warrant a nerf on that output, sadly spaghetti code issues made them get reverted.

Hmm? It was that incomprehensible? I freely admit that the implementation of most of the experimental modes was not in any way clean, but this was naturally because they were so often tweaked, and I expected to use a proper implementation as and when finalization may have occurred.

[bloodi]

Hmm? It was that incomprehensible? I freely admit that the implementation of most of the experimental modes was not in any way clean, but this was naturally because they were so often tweaked, and I expected to use a proper implementation as and when finalization may have occurred.

Ask them not me, thats what we have been told, somewhere, at some point.

[Penril]

What role is a DPS WP supposed to fill? I asked the same question in a SW Assault-spec thread, trying to find out if people thought melee SWs should act like Slayers (frontline all the time) or getting in melee sporadically, jumping in-and-out/in case they get caught by a mDPS.

People seem to think a Wrath WP should fill the role of, say, a WL, ignoring the fact that a Wrath WP can still cleanse, rez, and do very respectable ST healing. Now, which setup benefits from having someone fill this role? Maybe something like:

- 2H DPS SM for double spirit debuff (better ST healing from the WP, as well as PoR proc/Guilty Soul/Soulfire damage).
- WL (lacks an inc HD, has an armor debuff that greatly benefits the WP)
- Healers x2.

That's 5 spots. Last one could be a second DPS Tank (IB or KotBS) to cover for the loss of damage for running the DPS WP. You end up with a group that does decent damage, has armor/heal debuffs, and extra ST healing in case one of your true healers gets in trouble. If things get ugly and someone dies, the DPS WP can rez while the true healers keep healing. The DPS WP also has an additional cleanse. Is this the role a Wrath WP should fill? If it is, then it fills it already in a very specific group setup.

Should he fill a full DPS slot like, say, a WL? Would need to discuss it. Though If I had to guess, I think most people fail at DPS WP because they intend to play it like a true mDPS and it simply is not meant to.

[bloodi]

.

Well, the point is, it doesnt work, you need 2 dps that do proper dps damage minimum. That is the flaw, you cant run subpar dps and make up for it somewhere else without falling behind inmensely.

He doesnt make up for it, neither do the "dps ib" tank and all that, you know that already, the difference between a proper dps and a tank or a wp doing dps is a big factor.

Should he fill a full DPS slot like, say, a WL? Would need to discuss it. Though If I had to guess, I think most people fail at DPS WP because they intend to play it like a true mDPS and it simply is not meant to.

He should, there is no but or ifs around it, if he is filling a dps role, he needs to do dps damage to be viable, if that means gutting him in other aspects, so be it but half and half just doesnt work at all.

Sometimes is not about teaching or playing properly, you cant hammer things with a wet noodle and there is no way around that.

[peterthepan3]

Have to chime in here as I see a lot of people who haven't even played the class passing judgment.

Having tested it extensively in a competitive environment, I firmly believe that the Wrath WP should be able to fill in for a DPS - at the expense of losing most of their self-healing.

The .ab ex Wrath WP (not to be mistaken with the Grace WP, which was somewhat overperforming) functioned almost exactly as I would have hoped the Wrath WP to perform: you had sick damage, your heals (compared to Grace) weren't amazing as you needed PoR, you had a speed proc to keep up and alleviate mobility issues. Basically, you could fill in for a DPS - but you were not incredibly overpowered.

I am all for keeping some inherent weaknesses so that counters can be presented in a fight (WL is countered by killing his pet, SH/SH are countered by pulls and Ensnare, healers are countered with outgoing heal debuffs, Magus/Engi are countered by LoS/mobility/killing their pet, etc), and one of these is the WP's lack of mobility. However, once he gets to you, he should hit like a truck.

As it stands now, the Wrath WP hits relatively hard, but runs out of steam pretty quickly and offers nothing that any other DPS could bring. You need a specific group comp to make it work. I am all for reducing the healing of Wrath, provided it packs more of a punch and isn't bitched so easily.

Is it viable? If by 'viable' you mean 'does it work against destruction in scenarios?', then the answer is yes. Most of the real challenging groups/players have left. Does this mean that the class itself is 'viable'? It needs love, imo, and still - even in BiS gear - can't fill in for a proper DPS. If you've forgone all of your healing potential (apart from Divine Assault, which should also be nerf'd imo if Wrath were to be buffed), you should be more of a threat than Wrath currently is.

It was honestly frustrating playing a Wrath WP in 6v6, knowing allthewhile a better class would have made for 10x easier a fight.

[Krima]

Yes..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izMfjv5 ... e=youtu.be

lol Masacra worst player on server after chineshere i have him like + milion on my sorc and i almost dont play her

i really wish to see same players damazkron or K/D ratio

[Oldschool]

I Play mostly at Destruction, so I can tell this from my Point of view if a WP DPS is viable also compared to my experience from live Server, where I have played a WP.

My answer is: YES

A good geard WP with Grace/Wrath can be a badass.
Specialy if he is in fight with other melees who Needs to stay in melee fight and not to run, he is able to kill them alone, step by step one after another, if no healer is there.
He brings out Damage with crits of 500-600Damage vs Marauders and can heal himself enough to sustain the fight and win.

And I have the Impression, that the heal Debuff (Marauder) isnt working at Melee Heals, but I will check this further.

You can see nowadays alot melee WPs everywhere, and more or less no Melee DoKs...
I havent played a DoK at RoR and cant say if there is so much disadvantage between WP and DoK that the good old times of Melee DoKs are over....in Live Server we had alot of them.
Now I cant see them anymore, but what Iam seeing now alot are Melee WPs, DPS Zealots, DPS AMs and DPS Runis are comming
What gives me the Impression, that in the class Balance is something wrong, if Healers are able to do damage and sustain fights with this "IWIN" class without Need of a Tank and Heal, like other MDPS Needs...

[peterthepan3]

I Play mostly at Destruction, so I can tell this from my Point of view if a WP DPS is viable also compared to my experience from live Server, where I have played a WP.

My answer is: YES

A good geard WP with Grace/Wrath can be a badass.
Specialy if he is in fight with other melees who Needs to stay in melee fight and not to run, he is able to kill them alone, step by step one after another, if no healer is there.
He brings out Damage with crits of 500-600Damage vs Marauders and can heal himself enough to sustain the fight and win.

And I have the Impression, that the heal Debuff (Marauder) isnt working at Melee Heals, but I will check this further.

You can see nowadays alot melee WPs everywhere, and more or less no Melee DoKs...
I havent played a DoK at RoR and cant say if there is so much disadvantage between WP and DoK that the good old times of Melee DoKs are over....in Live Server we had alot of them.
Now I cant see them anymore, but what Iam seeing now alot are Melee WPs, DPS Zealots, DPS AMs and DPS Runis are comming
What gives me the Impression, that in the class Balance is something wrong, if Healers are able to do damage and sustain fights with this "IWIN" class without Need of a Tank and Heal, like other MDPS Needs...

Sounds to me like you're arguing from the position of a solo player/pugging scenarios. An MDPS will always need support, but once you play with a group that becomes a nonissue.

There are a lot of melee WPs, yes, but how many of them are actually effective? Just because you don't see a lot of melee DOKs recently (Starilas group taking a break I suppose, and the others have 'left' ) doesn't negate from the fact that the DPS DOK is still a better class than the DPS WP.

Also, if I may postulate: the reason why you're seeing a lot of DPS healer archetypes (Zealot/Sh/WP/etc) achieving moderate levels of success is because there is literally 0 competitive PvP on the server atm, allowing unorthodox groups/classes to shine somewhat.