Are BWs obsolete?

[Penril]

So yeah back to my original post. The only thing I was really suggesting is that the self damage be toned down to match where the bw/sorc is at now. I wasn't suggesting changing anything else. No doubt it was OP on live and that is why the damage was so severe, but the classes have been balanced down so I think the self damage should be to match.

If that's all you want, go make the proposal.

[bloodi]

So yeah back to my original post. The only thing I was really suggesting is that the self damage be toned down to match where the bw/sorc is at now. I wasn't suggesting changing anything else. No doubt it was OP on live and that is why the damage was so severe, but the classes have been balanced down so I think the self damage should be to match.

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=23090

Not going to happen, if anything, is going to get worse.

Nice try though.

I dont think you understood what i was trying to say, your perspective of melee being better in 6vs6, something that i agree with, is rare around here, to the point where you can see threads like that, where suggestion to nerf overperforming skills like the WL/Marauder m1 are shot down because "ranged then would kite forever and would be impossible to catch up"

Thats the narrative here, Rdps are king and melee are playthings that ranged toy with.

And thats a balance forums thread, with all the "facts" and moderation, so no "pug" arguments and all of that, so is more or less accepted and stated as fact.

So good luck arguing the opposite.

[Tankbeardz]

So yeah back to my original post. The only thing I was really suggesting is that the self damage be toned down to match where the bw/sorc is at now. I wasn't suggesting changing anything else. No doubt it was OP on live and that is why the damage was so severe, but the classes have been balanced down so I think the self damage should be to match.

viewtopic.php?f=100&t=23090

Not going to happen, if anything, is going to get worse.

Nice try though.

I dont think you understood what i was trying to say, your perspective of melee being better in 6vs6, something that i agree with, is rare around here, to the point where you can see threads like that, where suggestion to nerf overperforming skills like the WL/Marauder m1 are shot down because "ranged then would kite forever and would be impossible to catch up"

Thats the narrative here, Rdps are king and melee are playthings that ranged play with.

And thats a balance forums thread, with all the "facts" and moderation, so no "pug" arguments and all of that, so is more or less accepted and stated as fact.

So good luck arguing the opposite.

Ah my bad then. That post was back from when PROC meta was still a thing I think.

[bloodi]

Ah my bad then. That post was back from when PROC meta was still a thing I think.

Is not.

Edit: I checked and you are actually right, my bad.

[tazdingo]

If I got you right.

Not sure, that increasing a size of IB model would be... hm, lore-friendly neither would be helpful in some way to increase number of order tanks.

there are larger than normal dwarf NPCs in game. i think it's pretty lore friendly to assume that more hulky dwarfs would have a better chance of being promoted to the hardest-of-the-hard ironbreakers

increasing their model size would also make them more effective sightblocks and screens for the order backline, an unspoken role which orcs, chosen and mara perform very effectively for destro

Yes, Destro side has only 1 nation of little size - goblins, that is only half of the Greenskin race and both their roles (rdps and healer) are mentioned to stay away from the front line.
While Order has little size nation too - dwarfs, a whole dwarven race and they have all roles inside: healer, rdps, mdps and a tank. So their size is fine for healer and rdps, not bad for mdps (harder to target, but arguably while in rage) and bad for tanks. Sure it's increases their survivability for a bit, but tank must protect and survive, not only survive.

exactly

playing as destro i barely notice IBs in the thic k of things, whereas when i've played as order, it's pretty hard to miss a chosen or BO!

the psychological impact of tanks in large scale battles is important. IB's have none. SM's have little/are often mistaken for other elves (though in their dps role, they may prefer this.) knights are fine due to their crested helmets which scream LOOK AT ME (this is a good thing)

[BrockRiefenstahl]

Also this argument from the BO tank a couple of pages earlier seems really pickey.
They claim they (BWs) can hit for 500 blabla. So he would not use his defensiv tool (because it only absorbs 500 dmg)
It is not like a BW is pressing a button and does for sure 500 dmg to a tank.
There are second long casts + you have to actually hit (not blocked/disrupted) +++ you need to hardcast.
The "if stars align every 6 second instant fireball" or fiery blast, arent as good as people are making that up, especially if 1 out of 3 of those "free instacasts" are also disrupted lol... Unless you spec for the tactic and be forced to the first tree.

If you're a single bw in a wb, you have no right to complain imo. But your point makes no sense anyway. You don't fight against a single bw in rvr. Try fighting 8+ bws + sws + slayers That's why my argument is not pickey and my point still stands, bo bubble is useless in wbs.

I'm not saying bw is absolutely op or whatever (it is 'just slightly op' in wbs). I don't play the class so I wouldn't know. But I know how we run our wbs, and how ez mode it is when you have a right composition on order.

No, just no...
Did you even read my post? WARBAND - Class balance is a whole other beast. I was clearly talking about mainly SCs. Especially if warband zergs are not requiring that much skill anyway, that is more a point of numbers.
Also your argument about BWs seems odd. Destru got quite an increase of magus (is it Magii?). Its not like you go harakiri mode and to far into the front. Because there are a lot of Magus (hello range)+ Tanks Melees that will get you hard. Try telling your healer he should do his job properly if you have a kilometer long debuff/dot list on you + some melees only because you "wanted to show your theoretical dmg potential" on unguarded squishies.
Sure BW dmg is strong when multiple BWs spam it on a frontline, but so are other range classes if they "bomb".
Not sure why my reasoning does not make any sense to you, if you seem to putting the whole BW story out of context yourself and suddenly talk about of 8 BW in a bulk...

[Penril]

Ah my bad then. That post was back from when PROC meta was still a thing I think.

Is not.

It was.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17147

[bloodi]

Ah my bad then. That post was back from when PROC meta was still a thing I think.

Is not.

It was.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17147

I was faster than you.

[Reesh]

Brock had a few good points.

Even before the changes to dots, state of bw was dire regarding the 6v6 or competitive play. Good healers that know where to find cleanse button, as well as m2 morale cleanse nullified the class to the ground.
That mythical spike dmg always came from dots followed by few prepared before hand direct damaging skills.
It works only on squishies that are full glass cannon specced, without guard or situational awareness. On top of that, all the stars has to collide, so majority of skills won't get defended.


It always was a pug farming class, that you can counter every time with one simple thing - after seeing the 1st dot appear, step back few ft to deny any follow-up dmg, making the bw useless for 10s.

[bloodi]

It always was a pug farming class, that you can counter every time with one simple thing - after seeing the 1st dot appear, step back few ft to deny any follow-up dmg, making the bw useless for 10s.

Now you can just spec deft defender and the rotation will get scrwed in 80% of the cases, if hte target is a healer, you simply are not going to do anything to it, meaning your only viable target are now truly undergeared and underleveled people who were already easy.

I dont know if they made it obsolete but its surely not fun.