News of the WP Update !

[Wosh]

Hey devs,

6 Months a go, we / I was told that changes to the wp class was around the corner. We are stil suffering useless tactics, no synergies, prayers that are useless and bygges. Any melee still dages the lack of mass repent unless entering wrath tree. Can you change the AA haste with mass repent, it is where it belongs. Mass repent should be available to all specs, as this is survival tool from top shelve and is a must have in any situation where your 1 vs 2+. AA haste is a damage ability with ties to crits and belongs with wrath.

Now second, take a look at 25% damage / -20% heal tactic it holds too much importance for all melee specs. Lets ret and avoid such “holes”, the more specs you can use with success the bettet.

Prayers and the functions they have should be tweaked, the internal global cooldown kills devotion and the armor buff dont stack with pots.

Mass cleanse, you have to give this back to Bering the entire group Includeing the wp or completly cleanse the wp for all his curses when applied to the wp. It has a 5 second cd and i suspect that is part of the reason mass cleanse tactic also worked on the wp.

Anyway, What are the news about our class. It’s been 6 months plus since devs Said we where getting blocking as grace.

Synergies and a grand vision of a class balance/fix, can you deliver some news?

/Wosh

[peterthepan3]

It's on the to-do list, but we are taking time as we do not want to make the classes OP: damage buffs to Wrath would mandate reducing their healing significantly, as we would essentially be cementing them as a DPS with said buffs; no DPS should be able to provide powerful offheals/rez etc. The 15-pt abilities will be scrutinized accordingly - should we decide to opt for a certain path..

[Wosh]

It's on the to-do list, but we are taking time as we do not want to make the classes OP: damage buffs to Wrath would mandate reducing their healing significantly, as we would essentially be cementing them as a DPS with said buffs; no DPS should be able to provide powerful offheals/rez etc. The 15-pt abilities will be scrutinized accordingly - should we decide to opt for a certain path..

If your going to take away the healing part when you invest in wrath then it Can only mean your going to control the prayers giveing then Buffs and debuffs.

Have you considered that your createing barriers between the diffrent trees?

[peterthepan3]

It's on the to-do list, but we are taking time as we do not want to make the classes OP: damage buffs to Wrath would mandate reducing their healing significantly, as we would essentially be cementing them as a DPS with said buffs; no DPS should be able to provide powerful offheals/rez etc. The 15-pt abilities will be scrutinized accordingly - should we decide to opt for a certain path..

If your going to take away the healing part when you invest in wrath then it Can only mean your going to control the prayers giveing then Buffs and debuffs.

Have you considered that your createing barriers between the diffrent trees?

It warrants a discussion for sure, as many people believe the DOK/WP's strength lies in their hybrid nature, i.e. being able to damage and heal simultaneously. As it stands now, Grace WP is very viable for smaller encounters/sc - but Wrath isn't really viable at all. If we want to increase the damage a Wrath WP can put out (and I am in agreement with you here that we should) then we will have to ensure he is not overperforming: this would mean looking at their healing potential.

As per .ab ex, I would probably try out Prayers giving X damage to abilities in Wrath - but would want to discuss penalties a Wrath WP may incur when using this Prayer; dealing significantly more damage - yet having access to amazingly powerful offheals - is overkill, and something would have to give. The reason why hybrids are arguably fine as they are now is because their heals require them to be in melee and subject to CC/evasion, while their damage is not as powerful as real DPS: buffing DPS WP would require reevaluation of whether or not we are opting for a hybrid or pure approach to the melee specs.

The above my personal opinion and not necessarily representative of Dan's, or the rest of the team's, thoughts. Rest assured, however, that we will be sure to elicit feedback and thoughts from community when we finally get to tackling this.

[Wosh]

Mass repent on 2handers or a switch between AA Haste tactic and mass repent, putting the AA haste back in the wrath tree, would be a very valuable buff.

Getting mass repent thru 2 hander Will free up tactic slot, this will provide a buff to wrath as you free up that slot. And it will also give grace spec a choice of going either wrath or salvation, not just wrath to aquire the mass repent tactic.

I have a few hours worth of playtime with my wp, some in grace and it’s a really hard and nearly impossible rask to do the frontline healing without mass repent.

Now even If I have to slot it for any melee to be viable, the fact If I could get it from the genral pool and not be forced to wrath would be usefull.

Now back to the A A haste tactic, this should give more buffs, make this the hallmark of the wrath og use guilty soul tactic. Wanna Go wrath full dps and you Will need this skill, provide the buff of damage in the wrath tree by useing a tactic from it and tweak that.

Remember to check that massrepent and guilty soul dont cross each other in a bad Way as they do now.

Anyway the use of tactic’s from wrath might be able to fix damage of wrath and not tamper too much with the “hybrid” options by restricting thru prayers with buffs /debuffs.

Just a few ideas you Can thinker with, But a change to a tree and an experimental buff to the tactic slot might do the trick your looking for when buffing wrath without killing hybrids og makeing them op.

And im more or less fine with the damage as i have seen killing requires the use of our heal debuffs and ini debuff.

[ajnin420]

As long as reverting any changes made is possible im up for what ideas the team has.

That said, id like to just give my 2 cents on wrath. Its by no means a top competitve build (this is fine Imo) , but it can be alot of fun to play in the right hands. It is far from useless in most situations imo but does have a very high skill cap to be used with any success.

Id argue that most wrath wps arent looking to join warbands and would rather small man and gank. The class is pretty effective at that.

I understand you disagree with that peter and thats fine. You have your pov and I have mine.

I dont see why some values on wrath abilities cant be adjusted slightly higher and just see how that goes. Maybe a bit of a boost to Bludgen... or perhaps some utility added to it (stacking dot or debuff or perhaps some flat armor pen)

Anyway not trying to be rude. Just the pov of a wrath wp who has put in a lot of hours and has seen a lot of success doing so. If you disagree and think im just some moron then so be it, not looking for a fight.

[auzzibear]

I have a few hours worth of playtime with my wp, some in grace and it’s a really hard and nearly impossible rask to do the frontline healing without mass repent.

I have been playing grace WP for a few months now, in 6mans and warbands, and even duoing. there is only 1 situation where i feel aoe detaunt is mandatory: when you do not have a guard. Gear, armor/wounds talis, an armor pot, and wounds buff should get you ~4.3k armor and ~8k health and soft-capped resistances. i can count on one hand the number of times ive actually used aoe detaunt in the past month. if theres a sorc free casting or good WE, just put your detaunt on her and whack away at something else. ironbowls (IB) and I duoing often survive and win 2v6+. biggest thing is picking the biggest threat (either detaunting or killing them quickly), and judging when to use divine assault and which enemy to target while using it. sometimes, its better to keep using sigmars radiance over divine assault. and sigmars shield - keep that thing up as long as possible. i sometimes find myself running charged fury just to get more RF to fuel sigmars shield.

tldr; u dont need aoe detaunt. focus gear on defenses, put renown into -% chance to be crit/parry/disrupt, and get a guard

[Wosh]

I have a few hours worth of playtime with my wp, some in grace and it’s a really hard and nearly impossible rask to do the frontline healing without mass repent.

I have been playing grace WP for a few months now, in 6mans and warbands, and even duoing. there is only 1 situation where i feel aoe detaunt is mandatory: when you do not have a guard. Gear, armor/wounds talis, an armor pot, and wounds buff should get you ~4.3k armor and ~8k health and soft-capped resistances. i can count on one hand the number of times ive actually used aoe detaunt in the past month. if theres a sorc free casting or good WE, just put your detaunt on her and whack away at something else. ironbowls (IB) and I duoing often survive and win 2v6+. biggest thing is picking the biggest threat (either detaunting or killing them quickly), and judging when to use divine assault and which enemy to target while using it. sometimes, its better to keep using sigmars radiance over divine assault. and sigmars shield - keep that thing up as long as possible. i sometimes find myself running charged fury just to get more RF to fuel sigmars shield.

tldr; u dont need aoe detaunt. focus gear on defenses, put renown into -% chance to be crit/parry/disrupt, and get a guard

“And get a Guard!” And when your argument can stand without that as foundation, then it becomes valid. Reason your not repenting in mass pVp, i could never understand why. Guard or not applied, It’s less damage incomming to the two of you.

Lets try and balance the class, without a guard. The guard should be a layer, If available not mandatory.

And im not against a buff to wrath, that buff has been asked by many. I’m affraid your boosting damage to a dps regulært lever and then completly destroy his healing as a defense of such buff. I like the fact he does a bit less damage than regulary dps because he makes up for this with healing. Right now even with 1000 str you can’t kill a proper healer without heal debuff from wrath tree or the hammer skill. And it should be this Way.

What I’m against is makeing our class depending on tanks, when both healing and doing damage in melee requires mass repent to function as again the class should not be depending on a tank to function. Mass repent dident have that slot in live, AA haste did because It’s ties into crits, because they are so important for the wrath priests healing ability.

With a guard-buddy on Voice you should do Well vs. pugs they might even be ungrouped (happens, you fight in small skirmishes with ungrouped people). My simple proposal to move AA haste to wrath and make mass repent general, would put things right in some regards for a small effort (While we wait for the Golden package, sent by sigmar himself). I just spot some very obvious fixes that requires minimal effort/time to implement or so I suppose.

Less guard more repent!

[auzzibear]

i think its fair to balance around having a guard, because its a group game and in a group, you should be able to get a guard.

with a guard, you're a god mode durable frontline with great group heals. without it, you're an average frontline that has to play carefully and cant always be in the thick of it. its like slayer. with a guard, a slayer is a monster. without one, well...then its just not worth bringing.

im scared that balancing around individual classes will make things unbalanced. imagine a WP with guard given a free aoe detaunt without speccing. youd be able to spec some into salv, getting the group HoT and bubble and group cleanse. the survivability and group utility would be too much, not to mention very solid sustain damage. i think the trade off for needing to spec into wrath is valid.

[Wosh]

Erm, you get either guard or repent bonus not both. But as you Said, you dont play without a guard, so you can’t be speaking out of experience.

As ambassador clown stated numerous times, mass repent is mandatory. And in all cases mass repent is counter productive used with the other wrath tactic. AA haste was wrath Line in WAR, with a good reason as it has synergies with other wrath tactics, mass repent was not listen under wrath. Mass repent does not have synergies with wrath tactics or any other for that case. It’s the frontline 1 vs many tactic that all wp’s need and it should be locked for that reason to general. With a tactic slot spent you get a choice with the thing stück in wrath you get the opposite.

I’m not suggesting that it becomes inherient to a 2 hander, that personally Will be like getting an Extra tactic slot, atleast for me. No i just want i back in generel and aa haste back in wrath where it belongs.