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Mighty Soul Removed?!

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detrap
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Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#121 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:25 pm

billyk wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:25 pm
Xergon wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:05 pm
On one hand i would agree that 2h Knight should have viable DPS source spec similar to what SM/IB and to all 2h Destro tanks. On other hand i would actually prefer to nerf all 2h Tanks DPS to be on similar level OR at least force them to pay proper price for it.

I personally never used this tactic once so i wont see the difference either as SnB or 2h Knight.
the
Im just surprised how many 2h wanna be pew pew DPS 2h Knights there are... kinda worrying from Order PoV...
Sure and in a month, forums will be full of "why order has no tanks uwu" posts. Tanks need some dps or they just get ignored. DPS and healers get focused first, tank can't keep it from happening because there's no way the tank can deter opponents, healers down, DPS down, then tank down.
A tank without dps is a punching bag with some utility. That's it. If you want low dps tanks, make their utility OP, then people have a reason to fear the tank and will focus it. Otherwise tanks are just useless eaters.

If you want to go all theorycrafting and meta crap, then why not go all the way and REMOVE all classes that aren't deemed acceptable by the devs in addition? Only Slayers, BW, AM, RP on Order then while destro has a full roster except WE and Magus, good luck with that lmao.
Yeah you are right...a knight only has consecutive 4 interrupts, multiple mainstat and defensive state debuffs, and can run around with 1k strength, 700 weapon skill, crit hitting light armour targets for over 1k or base 600/700 with PS.
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Alucard2010
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Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#122 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:05 am

detrap wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:25 pm
billyk wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:25 pm
Xergon wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:05 pm
On one hand i would agree that 2h Knight should have viable DPS source spec similar to what SM/IB and to all 2h Destro tanks. On other hand i would actually prefer to nerf all 2h Tanks DPS to be on similar level OR at least force them to pay proper price for it.

I personally never used this tactic once so i wont see the difference either as SnB or 2h Knight.
the
Im just surprised how many 2h wanna be pew pew DPS 2h Knights there are... kinda worrying from Order PoV...
Sure and in a month, forums will be full of "why order has no tanks uwu" posts. Tanks need some dps or they just get ignored. DPS and healers get focused first, tank can't keep it from happening because there's no way the tank can deter opponents, healers down, DPS down, then tank down.
A tank without dps is a punching bag with some utility. That's it. If you want low dps tanks, make their utility OP, then people have a reason to fear the tank and will focus it. Otherwise tanks are just useless eaters.

If you want to go all theorycrafting and meta crap, then why not go all the way and REMOVE all classes that aren't deemed acceptable by the devs in addition? Only Slayers, BW, AM, RP on Order then while destro has a full roster except WE and Magus, good luck with that lmao.
Yeah you are right...a knight only has consecutive 4 interrupts, multiple mainstat and defensive state debuffs, and can run around with 1k strength, 700 weapon skill, crit hitting light armour targets for over 1k or base 600/700 with PS.
Please tell me where you get your numbers and the gear your using to do so. It literally isn’t possible. Go away. I slap tanks/healers for 242/360 PS crits with 930 str 180 melee power And 600 WS. I’m mixing off sov, triumphant, Sent, and warlord for stats. Tell me where you get your numbers from, I have tested and built mine. My stat lines were achieved using sent jewel, str aura, linis, focused offense, and tested with nightless, blood lord, and fort 2h sword. Those were the best #s I could squeeze out.

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detrap
Posts: 66
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Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#123 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:04 am

Alucard2010 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:05 am
detrap wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:25 pm
billyk wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:25 pm

Sure and in a month, forums will be full of "why order has no tanks uwu" posts. Tanks need some dps or they just get ignored. DPS and healers get focused first, tank can't keep it from happening because there's no way the tank can deter opponents, healers down, DPS down, then tank down.
A tank without dps is a punching bag with some utility. That's it. If you want low dps tanks, make their utility OP, then people have a reason to fear the tank and will focus it. Otherwise tanks are just useless eaters.

If you want to go all theorycrafting and meta crap, then why not go all the way and REMOVE all classes that aren't deemed acceptable by the devs in addition? Only Slayers, BW, AM, RP on Order then while destro has a full roster except WE and Magus, good luck with that lmao.
Yeah you are right...a knight only has consecutive 4 interrupts, multiple mainstat and defensive state debuffs, and can run around with 1k strength, 700 weapon skill, crit hitting light armour targets for over 1k or base 600/700 with PS.
Please tell me where you get your numbers and the gear your using to do so. It literally isn’t possible. Go away. I slap tanks/healers for 242/360 PS crits with 930 str 180 melee power And 600 WS. I’m mixing off sov, triumphant, Sent, and warlord for stats. Tell me where you get your numbers from, I have tested and built mine. My stat lines were achieved using sent jewel, str aura, linis, focused offense, and tested with nightless, blood lord, and fort 2h sword. Those were the best #s I could squeeze out.
Damage was done against Sorc/Shaman/Zealot/rSH/WE...I don't even have sov/warlord or sentinel yet and just 500 ws. :/

How do you only crit for 300 with PS on light armour healers with the gear you have?
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Alucard2010
Posts: 50

Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#124 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:45 am

detrap wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:04 am
Alucard2010 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:05 am
detrap wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:25 pm


Yeah you are right...a knight only has consecutive 4 interrupts, multiple mainstat and defensive state debuffs, and can run around with 1k strength, 700 weapon skill, crit hitting light armour targets for over 1k or base 600/700 with PS.
Please tell me where you get your numbers and the gear your using to do so. It literally isn’t possible. Go away. I slap tanks/healers for 242/360 PS crits with 930 str 180 melee power And 600 WS. I’m mixing off sov, triumphant, Sent, and warlord for stats. Tell me where you get your numbers from, I have tested and built mine. My stat lines were achieved using sent jewel, str aura, linis, focused offense, and tested with nightless, blood lord, and fort 2h sword. Those were the best #s I could squeeze out.
Damage was done against Sorc/Shaman/Zealot/rSH/WE...I don't even have sov/warlord or sentinel yet and just 500 ws. :/

How do you only crit for 300 with PS on light armour healers with the gear you have?
What "light armor" healers are you talking about because I'm talking about end game content here, not oppressor KOTBS level bullshit.... Sov Healers stack armor and are not "light armor" healers ever - if they are, they are shammies and they just kite your ass anyways.

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TenTonHammer
Posts: 3779

Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#125 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:21 am

Xergon wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:05 pm


Im just surprised how many 2h wanna be pew pew DPS 2h Knights there are... kinda worrying from Order PoV...
Maybe its because people want to do something different instead of being a deftard tank or guard and aura bots who exist for the sole purpose of enabling others.

I just cant get over how constantly people whom want to play an implemented playstyle/spec option that is the 2h playstyle

and then people even in this thread just constantly berate them for it with stuff like “2h tanks loldps go reroll mdps”
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detrap
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Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#126 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:22 am

Alucard2010 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:45 am
detrap wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:04 am
Alucard2010 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:05 am


Please tell me where you get your numbers and the gear your using to do so. It literally isn’t possible. Go away. I slap tanks/healers for 242/360 PS crits with 930 str 180 melee power And 600 WS. I’m mixing off sov, triumphant, Sent, and warlord for stats. Tell me where you get your numbers from, I have tested and built mine. My stat lines were achieved using sent jewel, str aura, linis, focused offense, and tested with nightless, blood lord, and fort 2h sword. Those were the best #s I could squeeze out.
Damage was done against Sorc/Shaman/Zealot/rSH/WE...I don't even have sov/warlord or sentinel yet and just 500 ws. :/

How do you only crit for 300 with PS on light armour healers with the gear you have?
What "light armor" healers are you talking about because I'm talking about end game content here, not oppressor KOTBS level bullshit.... Sov Healers stack armor and are not "light armor" healers ever - if they are, they are shammies and they just kite your ass anyways.
In this game classes have light/medium/heavy armor. In this game you rely on your party/warband to assist with teamwork to take down targets. If a target is of a light or medium armor class, you or someone else in the group can armour debuff them; combine that with your strength buffs, toughness debuffs and resis debuffs (good with blazing blade now), and your damage is optimal for assisting targets, even soloing the ones caught out. Yes shammies kite...however being one of two tanks in the party, you have a snare (aoe with tactic) you can constantly reapply, a knockdown and even a m1 root. If they keep running, they are not using cast time abilities :)

Hard for any tank or dps to solo kill a good/geared healer in endgame (city).
KotBS - WP T1 - Engie T1 - BW rr16

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Uchoo
Posts: 281

Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#127 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:31 am

detrap wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:22 am
Alucard2010 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:45 am
detrap wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:04 am


Damage was done against Sorc/Shaman/Zealot/rSH/WE...I don't even have sov/warlord or sentinel yet and just 500 ws. :/

How do you only crit for 300 with PS on light armour healers with the gear you have?
What "light armor" healers are you talking about because I'm talking about end game content here, not oppressor KOTBS level bullshit.... Sov Healers stack armor and are not "light armor" healers ever - if they are, they are shammies and they just kite your ass anyways.
In this game classes have light/medium/heavy armor. In this game you rely on your party/warband to assist with teamwork to take down targets. If a target is of a light or medium armor class, you or someone else in the group can armour debuff them; combine that with your strength buffs, toughness debuffs and resis debuffs (good with blazing blade now), and your damage is optimal for assisting targets, even soloing the ones caught out. Yes shammies kite...however being one of two tanks in the party, you have a snare (aoe with tactic) you can constantly reapply, a knockdown and even a m1 root. If they keep running, they are not using cast time abilities :)

Hard for any tank or dps to solo kill a good/geared healer in endgame (city).
It's cool that you're learning the game and having so much fun, but I recommend you look into the buffs and debuffs that Swordmasters use as well. Your opinion seems quite grandiose for the level of knowledge you seem to be displaying.
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kmark101
Posts: 371

Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#128 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:32 am

tl,dr: knight needs Runefang back as its essential class defining mechanic

Mythic balanced this class pair as one of the magical dps (chosen) and the other as the physical dps one (knight). They balanced it the following way:
- Chosen got SOME of their skills spirit damage type because 4 destro classes can debuff spirit damage
- Knight got physical dps with Runefang, so in theory it could set up with a physical burst for 10 seconds after some other order class armor debuffs
- Knight also got a talent high in the right tree that turned its damage to elemental, but the trade off was NO ORDER CLASS CAN DEBUFF ELEMENTAL, BUT THE KNIGHT (for around 150 debuff value in average)

Staff decided to screw up that balance, giving:
- Full magical dps for chosen, which turned them into uncontrollable dps monsters with four spirit debuffs from their realm
- Castrating the knight from it's physical dps chance with removing Runefang (or rather changing it to some crap noone slots ever)
- Giving MS to knight, which is useless without good elemental debuff as with any other magical dps classes (so despite the popular opinion about why MS sucked is not because of the ridiculus +damage taken, but it's uselessness without elemental debuff... if this would be a corp or spirit damage type, things would have been WAY DIFFERENT)

And now both class lost this skill, without restoring Runefang.... chosen just got back to its original status, no biggie here... but knight got back to some limbo status, without Runefang still... means knight got brutally nerfed in the process, while its mirror is uneffected (and must add that knight lost it's other iconic M2 ability's (Emperor's Champion) duration from 30s to 15s, not sure why noone else noticed this ninja nerf btw).
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detrap
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Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#129 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:56 am

Uchoo wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:31 am
detrap wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:22 am
Alucard2010 wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:45 am


What "light armor" healers are you talking about because I'm talking about end game content here, not oppressor KOTBS level bullshit.... Sov Healers stack armor and are not "light armor" healers ever - if they are, they are shammies and they just kite your ass anyways.
In this game classes have light/medium/heavy armor. In this game you rely on your party/warband to assist with teamwork to take down targets. If a target is of a light or medium armor class, you or someone else in the group can armour debuff them; combine that with your strength buffs, toughness debuffs and resis debuffs (good with blazing blade now), and your damage is optimal for assisting targets, even soloing the ones caught out. Yes shammies kite...however being one of two tanks in the party, you have a snare (aoe with tactic) you can constantly reapply, a knockdown and even a m1 root. If they keep running, they are not using cast time abilities :)

Hard for any tank or dps to solo kill a good/geared healer in endgame (city).
It's cool that you're learning the game and having so much fun, but I recommend you look into the buffs and debuffs that Swordmasters use as well. Your opinion seems quite grandiose for the level of knowledge you seem to be displaying.
Swordmasters have the biggest spirit debuff in the game, it has to be timed with other abilities in the second stance so not to mess with optimal rotations (snare, aoe interrupt). Along with a random resis buff and stat steal may/may not benefit the group. They have a pure dps tree and tactics like the IB's. Knights bring all the other debuffs and buffs the other two tanks don't, they fall short in the level of dps IB's and SM's can do in cities, but do just enough with the right gear to assist dps in the warband well enough to increase the ceiling of damage compared to not having one 2h in the warband. I feel like some players are quick to point the finger at issues when they don't fully understand the class they are playing. I wanna see buffs to the class especially with auras, but the crying over mighty soul is over the top, never ran it and my damage is fine. My damage might even be better now that blazing blade doesn't require a tactic to turn it into elemental damage.
Last edited by detrap on Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Fey
Posts: 553

Re: Mighty Soul Removed?!

Post#130 » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:39 am

As far as Morale 2 duration nerfs that has happened to a lot of M2 abilities like Mountain Spirit/Eye of Sheerian. Chosen's Sprout Carapace was 30 seconds at one point. These are now 10 seconds, so id be happy with a 15 second duration.

Morales in general have been toned down a lot along with procs.
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