Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

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leondre25
Posts: 31

Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#1 » Sun May 18, 2025 6:42 am

INTRO
Heavily inspired by leftayparxounLink to his post:
As the title states, I tried to take a look at aSW with the goal of it working as an AoE MDPS for warband play.

Your first thought may be: This is unnecessary. aSW is a ST spec. It doesn't need an AoE warband build that's what Skirmish is for.
And you'd be correct to think that. My counterpoint is: there's nothing wrong with having more options.

Builds I used:

RR70 Assault with Split Arrows
RoR.builders - Shadow Warrior

RR70 Skirmish AoE Build
RoR.builders - Shadow Warrior

Builds and gear are taken from here:
Google Doc: aSW Builds & Gear
Calculations
After following the methods from this post and borrowing the already-completed calculations for other classes, I simply input the values for Assault SW in 5 Sov / 4 Triumph with WS talis and began to calculate. It was pretty easy since the rotation is only 3 buttons.

This assumes a 30-second fight with a single usage of Vengeance at the start, and Ferocious Assault having 100% uptime.
Rotation: Vengeance + Sweep on cooldown, then fill the rest with Spiral Fletched Arrow.
Also assuming infinite AP.

As for Skirmisher... I used the same methods, though those calculations may be a little off since I didn’t factor in a proper rotation, ability travel time, or having Whispering Winds. So take those numbers with a grain of salt. (If someone more experienced or better with math can come in with more accurate numbers, it would be appreciated.)

Rotation assumed to be: maintain DoTs, use Barrage/Lileath off CD, fill with Spiral Arrow, Vengeance on CD.
Assuming infinite AP.
Results
Image
As you can see... it’s pretty pitiful all around.
Not that Skirmish’s numbers are that high either, but at least Skirmish offers some decent warband utility.

aSW could potentially do more damage if you swap to Skirmisher stance to apply Broadhead Arrow, but at that point, you may as well just play Skirmisher.
Sweep alone isn’t worth it with its long 20s cooldown.

I didn’t test this with Absolute Preservation the numbers are drastic enough already. Any lower would cause me a heart attack.
Conclusions
Overall, I’d really like to see more specs become warband viable.
With the recent buffs to DPS healer specs, it gives me hope. Though most of them still lack warband presence, the fact that an attempt was made gives me optimism that more specs will reach that line.

You might also bring up the parity with Squig Herder and Quick Shootin’s lack of AoE options compared to Skirmisher.
My response: I also think Quick Shootin’ should have at least one AoE option instead of forcing all Squig players into Melee Squig Herder or pure roam builds.

Do I think aSW should be doing Mara/MSH-tier damage? Of course not.
The path’s identity still lies in its ST abilities but the option should at least exist.
Solutions
There are a few easy fixes I think would do quite well:

Solution 1
Remove the 20s cooldown from Sweeping Slash
Image
Why is it even there? It feels like a cooldown for the sake of having one.
If removed, the damage increase wouldn’t be overbearing still the lowest of the melee specs, but actually usable.

Solution 2
Allow Broadhead Arrow to be used in Assault Stance
Not a fan of this one, but it would add much-needed AoE with the Split Arrows tactic.
(Though this would also buff ST Assault, which might not be the best idea.)

Solution 3
Make Shadowstep baseline, and replace it with another AoE or a tactic that transforms an ST ability into AoE
This is more drastic, but Assault is desperate.
Shadowstep isn’t powerful enough to justify being locked behind Assault stance, it’s clunky, slow, and situational. Making it baseline and replacing the slot with an AoE ability or an assault specific version of split arrow.

any one of these solutions could fix assaults dire RVR state though solution #1 is the easiest, simplest and best by far.

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Fey
Posts: 917

Re: Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#2 » Sun May 18, 2025 7:12 am

20 second CD for Sweeping Slash is ass. 10 second cd and 45 feet would still be bad.
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Fey
Posts: 917

Re: Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#3 » Sun May 18, 2025 7:18 am

Order doesn't need another pounce type ability as it already has two. Better to replace Shadowstep with something resembling, Sanctified Oil. Short term stealth for a class with shadow literally in the name doesn't seem too far off, and much easier to implement what with z-axis, terrain, and such.
Fley - Zealot Domoarigobbo - Shaman
Squid - Squig Squit - B.O.
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Deadpoet
Posts: 323

Re: Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#4 » Thu May 22, 2025 4:42 pm

Fey wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 7:18 am Order doesn't need another pounce type ability as it already has two. Better to replace Shadowstep with something resembling, Sanctified Oil. Short term stealth for a class with shadow literally in the name doesn't seem too far off, and much easier to implement what with z-axis, terrain, and such.
This.

Farrul
Posts: 602

Re: Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#5 » Thu May 22, 2025 4:44 pm

ASW do they still exist after all those nerfs? I don't even see them in small scale these days.

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leondre25
Posts: 31

Re: Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#6 » Thu May 22, 2025 6:53 pm

Farrul wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 4:44 pm ASW do they still exist after all those nerfs? I don't even see them in small scale these days.
honestly not really. i cant remember the last time I've seen one. the few players i remember playing it seem to either stopped playing or moved onto new specs/characters.
I X-Realm to the losing team to make them lose harder.

Florian90210
Posts: 128

Re: Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#7 » Thu May 22, 2025 10:34 pm

Farrul wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 4:44 pm ASW do they still exist after all those nerfs? I don't even see them in small scale these days.
No point going melee if you can nuke everything from distance.

Farrul
Posts: 602

Re: Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#8 » Fri May 23, 2025 12:29 pm

Florian90210 wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 10:34 pm
Farrul wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 4:44 pm ASW do they still exist after all those nerfs? I don't even see them in small scale these days.
No point going melee if you can nuke everything from distance.
A good melee spec or hybrid spec will always be valuable, problem is ASW is not. It sucks to be honest.

It worked in small scale back when Broadhead arrow was usable in Assault stance and it had that 60% auto damage increase, devs nerfed it directly and indirectly so many times over the past 4 years it just isn't worth speccing into.

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live4treasure
Posts: 320

Re: Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#9 » Fri May 23, 2025 12:47 pm

leondre25 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 6:42 am
INTRO
Heavily inspired by leftayparxounLink to his post:
A bit more research into skirmish warband play would be beneficial. I am no expert in the topic, but rather than what you are suggesting the rotation is, I believe the actual way skirmish is played is through the use of Barrage and Whispering Winds.

You can also combine this with stance dancing back and forth between assault and skirmish, giving you movement speed and AP efficiency or stick with No Respite for the sweet damage bonus. And making things like the following possible:

Shadowstep - Skirmish Stance - spam Barrage with 0 cooldown for the next 10 seconds - back away as Whispering Winds falls off.
Giladar - rr 82 DPS AM

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leondre25
Posts: 31

Re: Assault Shadow Warrior damage output analysis - Comparison with other AOE dps classes

Post#10 » Fri May 23, 2025 2:33 pm

live4treasure wrote: Fri May 23, 2025 12:47 pm
leondre25 wrote: Sun May 18, 2025 6:42 am
INTRO
Heavily inspired by leftayparxounLink to his post:
A bit more research into skirmish warband play would be beneficial. I am no expert in the topic, but rather than what you are suggesting the rotation is, I believe the actual way skirmish is played is through the use of Barrage and Whispering Winds.

You can also combine this with stance dancing back and forth between assault and skirmish, giving you movement speed and AP efficiency or stick with No Respite for the sweet damage bonus. And making things like the following possible:

Shadowstep - Skirmish Stance - spam Barrage with 0 cooldown for the next 10 seconds - back away as Whispering Winds falls off.
I wont lie the skirmish section was done haphazardly due to my admitted in experienced in a spec i have little interest in.
though i did not factor in outside buffs at all in the calculations as it opens an entire can of worms of whats optimal.
will i have a Zealot applying armor debuff too? why not if i can have WW? does the WL numbers have WW? does the destro mdps have WW?
also ap efficency was ignored as this post numbers is not meant to be taken as gospel. just showing the severity of how bad sweeping slash is.
I X-Realm to the losing team to make them lose harder.

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