AM lack of Invader set

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Hardkoar
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Posts: 242

AM lack of Invader set

Post#1 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:06 pm

Currently to purchase the fortress weapon you are forced to unlock the full Invader set, that is quite the task and a long time grinding which in a way is fine.
The issue is that for a DPS archemage it's easily the worst deal in the game. There is no DPS set from the Invader set, only the healing one BUT both the DPS and Healing Fortress weapons are available....

We should have a DPS counterpart of the same set to give an extra incentive to join Fortress sieges and RVR in general. Currently the only way for DPS archemages is to spam scenarios until their brain explodes. Not everyone enjoys scenarios, especially without a full premade and people are not always online to form said premade. More options is always better, the grind for Royals/Invader medallions is a pretty steep one and takes months in the lakes which is awesome.
Please consider adding an Invader DPS set for Archemage and I guess Shamans are having the same issue too so that we can have the choice to either spam scenarios or play RVR.

The same can probably be said for people that want to spam scenarios and don't have access to a healing set and are therefor forced to play RVR just so they can heal their party.
Again, more options is always better, allowing players to choose how they would like to play instead of forcing them towards the way you want them to play. It promotes variety and personal choice making the experience way more enjoyable and fun.

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DirkDaring
Posts: 333

Re: AM lack of Invader set

Post#2 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:05 pm

That's because they changed all the armor sets here from what they were on live.
on live there were only weapons in scenarios not armor, but in order to get more people to join scenarios they added off set gear into scenarios.

Take Beastlord set, when it was added 3 or 4 years ago it was a heal set for warrior priest, and DOK, then after a year or 2 they changed it to off set with strength, weaponskill etc on it. its has a mix of intel, and willpower so a hybrid set for Archmage, and Shammy, but still mostly a heal set only .

Sentinle set for tanks, WP, and DOK are off set, but sadly not for Arch mage, OR Shammy, runepriest, zealot, they are just another healset , of which there are many. you either need to grind Scenarios, or grind through Funbad, Crypts, Tunnels, etc until you can grind Bastion Stairs for your DPS set.

looking at Tank types for example, same as healers every few sets had dps stats strength, etc, but those same sets were removed and placed mostly in scenario gear, i assume because the new devs that took over Mythic game really like grinding scenariors, but wanted more people to do them to get dps type gear, instead of just letting people play and have fun.

The Invader set on live was a DPS set even for healers, for most of us that played DAOC, and Warhammer Online, the thing that made those games fun, is that Mythic never pigeonholed any class into a set type of playstyle, each class could be built and played how the player wanted, with a toolset that let them accomplish that, with abilites, gear sets, etc, not a one dimensional vision of you rolled this Archtype, and that's how you are going to play, like a lot of other MMOs do.

Here's the old Sets from Live . https://thesteelbrand.wordpress.com/201 ... er-online/

Hardkoar
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Posts: 242

Re: AM lack of Invader set

Post#3 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:35 pm

Yea I remember the old sets, I am ok with them adding off sets here and there and allowing people to get healing sets through either pve or PvP.
The issue lies within not giving the option to choose which set to get from either activity.

There should be a pve or pvp set for both archetypes. Dps or Heal since the class is capable of both, DPS or TANK/Defence etc...

Forcing ppl to grind PVE or Scenarios or RVR to play what they wanna play will only push them away from either investing time in that class at all or even the game.
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up before or taken into consideration by the devs since it would be extremely easy to simply add an extra set with opposing stats to each activity and allow ppl to choose as they please.
Just like you do with Sovereign gear, 2 different NPC , same currency and you choose what u want. This merry go around DO this activity to get THIS activity is corrosive at best.

Lordholl
Posts: 20

Re: AM lack of Invader set

Post#4 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:12 pm

It's simple, you're not playing a classes main spec, main spec gear is always easier to obtain because it's a main spec so more sets would/should be available... now if you choose to play a class off spec and want to be beast most likely you will spend alot of work and time to complete because it's an offspec and you want to own at it... in most mmos an off spec build takes time but the payoff when completed is great

Hardkoar
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Posts: 242

Re: AM lack of Invader set

Post#5 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:23 pm

Lordholl wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:12 pm
It's simple, you're not playing a classes main spec, main spec gear is always easier to obtain because it's a main spec so more sets would/should be available... now if you choose to play a class off spec and want to be beast most likely you will spend alot of work and time to complete because it's an offspec and you want to own at it... in most mmos an off spec build takes time but the payoff when completed is great
I don't think we should compare this game to other mmo's as it does not have much in common, the ability to easily introduce a DPS set counterpart to Invader would give the opportunity to not simply go from Oppressor to Sovereign which is idiotic to say the least.
That being said, OFF spec gear is gathered by doing the same activity you do to gather main spec gear in every mmo, pvp through currency or Raids, that comes to mind and I've played them pretty much all... What you speak about is that one particular item that may be so Niche but is sought after by rare specs, and that is fine...
DPS Shammy/AM - DPS Tanks in this game are as present, if not more present, than healing/S&B, so again... Why alienate when you can provide more options? I'm not saying gear should be easier to achieve, I'm saying provide more options to achieve it as forcing ppl to do only Scenarios in a game where RVR is 90% of the game it's not a good idea.

emiliorv
Posts: 1083

Re: AM lack of Invader set

Post#6 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:28 pm

Hardkoar wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:23 pm
Lordholl wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:12 pm
It's simple, you're not playing a classes main spec, main spec gear is always easier to obtain because it's a main spec so more sets would/should be available... now if you choose to play a class off spec and want to be beast most likely you will spend alot of work and time to complete because it's an offspec and you want to own at it... in most mmos an off spec build takes time but the payoff when completed is great
I don't think we should compare this game to other mmo's as it does not have much in common, the ability to easily introduce a DPS set counterpart to Invader would give the opportunity to not simply go from Oppressor to Sovereign which is idiotic to say the least.
That being said, OFF spec gear is gathered by doing the same activity you do to gather main spec gear in every mmo, pvp through currency or Raids, that comes to mind and I've played them pretty much all... What you speak about is that one particular item that may be so Niche but is sought after by rare specs, and that is fine...
DPS Shammy/AM - DPS Tanks in this game are as present, if not more present, than healing/S&B, so again... Why alienate when you can provide more options? I'm not saying gear should be easier to achieve, I'm saying provide more options to achieve it as forcing ppl to do only Scenarios in a game where RVR is 90% of the game it's not a good idea.
You dont need go from oppressor to sovereing => you have bloodlord set and weapons....bloodlord weapons are BiS for a lot classes.

Also there are the influence weapons that can give some extra options:
https://www.returnofreckoning.com/armory/item/10047
teiloh wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:52 pm
Rampage is overrated, RUN AWAY! was hands down the best tactic in the game.

Hardkoar
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Posts: 242

Re: AM lack of Invader set

Post#7 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:33 pm

emiliorv wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:28 pm
Hardkoar wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:23 pm
Lordholl wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:12 pm
It's simple, you're not playing a classes main spec, main spec gear is always easier to obtain because it's a main spec so more sets would/should be available... now if you choose to play a class off spec and want to be beast most likely you will spend alot of work and time to complete because it's an offspec and you want to own at it... in most mmos an off spec build takes time but the payoff when completed is great
I don't think we should compare this game to other mmo's as it does not have much in common, the ability to easily introduce a DPS set counterpart to Invader would give the opportunity to not simply go from Oppressor to Sovereign which is idiotic to say the least.
That being said, OFF spec gear is gathered by doing the same activity you do to gather main spec gear in every mmo, pvp through currency or Raids, that comes to mind and I've played them pretty much all... What you speak about is that one particular item that may be so Niche but is sought after by rare specs, and that is fine...
DPS Shammy/AM - DPS Tanks in this game are as present, if not more present, than healing/S&B, so again... Why alienate when you can provide more options? I'm not saying gear should be easier to achieve, I'm saying provide more options to achieve it as forcing ppl to do only Scenarios in a game where RVR is 90% of the game it's not a good idea.
You dont need go from oppressor to sovereing => you have bloodlord set and weapons....bloodlord weapons are BiS for a lot classes.

Also there are the influence weapons that can give some extra options:
https://www.returnofreckoning.com/armory/item/10047
Nice, but I want to RVR, like the rest of the classes that can RVR and get their gear through RVR in a RVR game. Why not have that option available and force me to PVE in a game I'd never join to pvE if it was the last mmo available?
More options > Always better.


Me : I came to play soccer.
You: You can play volleyball.
Me: But I wanna play soccer like they do.
You: You need to play volleyball so u can play soccer one day.

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wargrimnir
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Re: AM lack of Invader set

Post#8 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:56 pm

More options means no options and only the fastest path to optimal gear is worth doing.

Distinct paths for different gear means people will play content if they want the gear. This is particularly problematic when RvR requires a critical mass of players to be viable content, and scenarios require a grand total of 12. That means your "main" spec gear is going to come from the premier content that requires the largest base of players. That's RvR. Tanks get tank gear, healers get healer gear, and DPS generally get their better DPS gear.

Scenarios generally have "off" spec gear. DPS for tanks and healers, defensive for DPS. You can solo to get all the scenario gear, even into ranked. Push button get content, never going to be top tier rewards. You will always be a step back from the top tier dungeon or RvR for the forseeable future. Scenario content is exceedingly accessible compared to anything else. You don't need a group. You don't need to show up to a specific place. You just push two buttons to queue.

Dungeons are a mix of both generally alternating, and we experiment with unconventional stats in PvE gear. They're gated, because of course they are. We made dungeons to be played, all of them. Finish your set before moving onto the next tier. This means everyone trying to get into Gunbad will still regularly find people looking for groups because anyone who needs a PvE set is going to be starting at Gunbad.

If you're looking to collect sets as a completionist, you'll end up getting everything because it's something to do. If you're a minmaxer, then figure out the content you need to do for the gear and grind it out. If you're just here to play and have fun, then don't worry about having the best gear and just roll with whatever you can get your hands on while you're having fun.

What we're not going to do is just trade gear between types of content, or reward gear from any content you decide to play. Each set comes from a specific place, it is very much by design, and that's not going to change.

Thanks for the feedback anyway.
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Hardkoar
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Posts: 242

Re: AM lack of Invader set

Post#9 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:10 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:56 pm
More options means no options and only the fastest path to optimal gear is worth doing.

Distinct paths for different gear means people will play content if they want the gear. This is particularly problematic when RvR requires a critical mass of players to be viable content, and scenarios require a grand total of 12. That means your "main" spec gear is going to come from the premier content that requires the largest base of players. That's RvR. Tanks get tank gear, healers get healer gear, and DPS generally get their better DPS gear.

Scenarios generally have "off" spec gear. DPS for tanks and healers, defensive for DPS. You can solo to get all the scenario gear, even into ranked. Push button get content, never going to be top tier rewards. You will always be a step back from the top tier dungeon or RvR for the forseeable future. Scenario content is exceedingly accessible compared to anything else. You don't need a group. You don't need to show up to a specific place. You just push two buttons to queue.


Thanks for the feedback anyway.
That is a good concept for most classes, the issue rises when the population is playing more DPS Shamans/AM's than healing ones, or more DPS tanks than S&B. It's as if the ''main'' spec has shifted and now we find ourself with a pletora of players that to play their class have to go merry around collecting gear for specs they will never play, just so they can play the one they rolled the class for.

I strongly believe that adding a DPS counterpart to the invader set (just like for Sovereign there's a DPS and Tanky version from the same currency through RVR) is highly necessary to keep the gear progress piramide doable through RVR which I believe is the main focus of the game.

emiliorv
Posts: 1083

Re: AM lack of Invader set

Post#10 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:35 am

Hardkoar wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:33 pm

Me : I came to play soccer.
You: You can play volleyball.
Me: But I wanna play soccer like they do.
You: You need to play volleyball so u can play soccer one day.
No, you want a volleyball trophy but playing soccer...
teiloh wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:52 pm
Rampage is overrated, RUN AWAY! was hands down the best tactic in the game.

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