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Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

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Hat
Posts: 45

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#51 » Sat May 23, 2020 3:46 pm

Rain of fire is probably the most cancerous ability in large scale along with GTDC. Unguarded and with moderate resists you can take upto around 1000 damage per tick every 2 seconds or so (750~ crit rain of fire, 150~ flames of rhuin, 100~ funnel power) and there is not a single large scale battle that will take place which doesn't involve some BW sat at the back of the zerg using his rain of fire with the tactic slotted, annihilating the destro pugs. And with the gigantic radius of rain of fire with the tactic slotted, it's just incredibly frustrating to deal with.

Even in an organized warband it is incredibly irritating to constantly take 600+ damage nonstop around corners and on walls just because some BW is standing still, channeling ROF. It's such a brainless and powerful skill that i really wish it would either get changed into something actually interesting (same with pit of shades) or just mirror the tactic to sorc so both realms get to experience the cancer that is giant radius rain of fire getting used around corners, denying massive amounts of retail estate.

At the very least, change it so it cannot be on used on areas out of line of sight.

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teiloh
Posts: 295

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#52 » Sat May 23, 2020 9:21 pm

poisonedshotz wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:58 am
Ice spikes is a low DMG dot, if you die to it you are probably stomping noob order who don't know how to employ countless very easy counters.
It's on par with, or better than, any DoT out there even without the tactic on. It can be double debuffed, and moreover it has a massive cone so it slots into an AOE Sorc's rotation without issue.
Shadow knives is a tickle skill just like RoF according to your logic.
Unlike ROF, Shadow Knives can hit -720 AOE resists and it stacks. It also does more damage and tracks targets out of LOS.
Why the **** are you bring up other classes like magus, msh, chosen, BO, dok. If you think those are OP then make a post about nerfing them. This post is about sorc and bw.
Why am I bringing up THE ZERG in a ZERG SITUATION? Or are you talking about SOLO vs. 120? In that case you're right, in a fictional situation where its one BW fighting 120 destro vs 1 Sorc fighting 120 Oder, the BW would probably do more trickle damage before being vaporized. Not seeing how this is relevant.
You're being disingenuous when you claim 30%-100% more damage with synergies. City DPS score never reflect this, only when sorc gets good group synergy they match BW dps. Otherwise in any non-optimal groups BW > sorc
"City DPS scores" don't exist. There are city damage totals, if you kill your enemy too fast your "City DPS score" will be low. My level 17 Magus did 450,000 damage in Nordenwatch, that doesn't mean anything on its own. You also don't need "good group synergy", the debuffs and CD decreasers are literally everywhere on Destro. It's simple math - a Sorc hitting 5-10% resists with a Magus debuff vs. a BW hitting 35-40% resists is 90-95% damage vs 60-65%, a difference of 50%.
The rain of fire AoE is so massive, that it destroys Destro funnels in both forts and keeps easily. The non-tank Destro have to stand an extra 10 feet back from where a non tank order would have to stand. In forts, RoF through the postern is big enough to entirely clear the left side of the main funnel, while PoS isn't big enough to reach. This is not a "noob stomping" phenomenon. AoE pressure is huge to zone people, decrease healer AP, force people to leave funnels to heal, and so on.
ROF doesn't stack. At most you're taking 400-1000 damage ticks every 2 seconds + Wildfire from a single BW. A single Magus, equally geared, using Pandemonium + Flamer does roughly 280-600/2s. Drop a Glean and they're almost equal. You're hugely exaggerating the impact of the ROF tactic. A Sorc can slot something else that yields similar gains; only POS will hit for a ****-ton more in a standoff because, once again, the Magus is debuffing resists by 360-400. And no, there is never a fort situation where Destro does not have a single Magus.
The rain of fire AoE is so massive, it covers the entire ramparts of the walls in keeps outer wall. This is huge because healers don't have a safe spot to stand, which means the Destro ranged DPS can't safely stand on wall. PoS can't do the same.
Incase you forgot, RoF has 2.25x the area of PoS.
What other class and their mirror have numbers on one of their MAIN skills differ by 2.25x
Infernal Wave with Lengthening Shadows: 86 range cone
11,611 ft2 cone
Flame Breath: 40 foot cone
2,512 ft2 cone

No, but you have a 4.62x advantage

And we ALL KNOW that a radius increase does not track linearly with a damage increase. You can easily hit the cap with your existing AOE, and not only that but POS/ROF do not stack so you can make up for the "lost" area by just spreading POS out instead of stacking 5 of them in the same spot like Destro always does.

jvlosky
Posts: 168

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#53 » Sat May 23, 2020 10:18 pm

Can't sorcs get the ability to cast while moving or do both BW and Sorc get that

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Vayra
Posts: 571

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#54 » Sat May 23, 2020 10:37 pm

jvlosky wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 10:18 pm
Can't sorcs get the ability to cast while moving or do both BW and Sorc get that
Sorcs have nothing that lets them cast while moving.
Vayra - Sorc
Forkrul - DoK
Kalyth - BG

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Drys
Posts: 103

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#55 » Sun May 24, 2020 11:53 am

poisonedshotz wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:45 pm
And its not even close

1. RoF/detonate 50% radius increase (BW) vs surging pain/infernal wave 33% radius/range increase (Sorc)

For those who forgot elementary school math, increasing radius by a factor increases the area by the factor squared. With this tactic, RoF get 125% more area than PoS
Sorc has an non-equivalent tactic that increases the radius of surging pain by 33% and distance of infernal wave by 33%. The area of surging pain (circular) is increased by about 77% while the aoe of infernal wave is increased by 33%. Infernal wave doesn't benefit from being able to clear behind walls, so the range increase is really only useful in open areas.
The massive size of RoF allows BW to easily clear funnels behind any doorway due to the massive radius when compared to Sorc PoS. If you play both sides you'll notice how easily RoF can deter players from trying to funnel, while how easy it is to move out of a PoS.
With this tactic, RoF get 125% more area than PoS.
A reasonable change might be tactic increases radius, but RoF can no longer proc anything.
Spoiler:
Drystav - Magus 40/6X
Drysthex - Zealot 40/4X
Drystzyk - Chosen 40/5X
Drystax - Mara 24/2X

Drystal - WE 40/5X
Drystmar - DOK 40/4X
Drystelle - Sorc 40/7X
Drysthorn - BG 40/6X

Drystham - Shaman 40/4X
Drystig - SH 40/5X
Drystlak - BOrc 40/4X

teiloh
Posts: 295

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#56 » Mon May 25, 2020 2:28 am

We can talk once Destro loses AE on a class or two and Chosen debuff aura is the Sorc's only AOE debuff option.

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M0rw47h
Posts: 663

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#57 » Mon May 25, 2020 8:51 am

The only change to Sorc and BW I would ever advocate would be moving both Ruin&Destruction and Shatter to M3, as both classes can self morale pump.
Anathae [KotBS] / Anathea [WP] ( and couple others )
former Anathae [Zealot]

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