Slayer feels too weak

[Magusar]

Played my slayer since the patch(nearly two weeks) and can say some things.

Spoiler:

Its not dead and not unplayable, but ratio risk-reward still bad, if we will compare slayer(and choppa, but topic about slayer so i will speak about slayer mainly, sometimes touching on the choppa) with others dps in this patch.

The most "bright" and "juicy" - 25% taking damage while furious. There are far fewer pros than cons. To be precise, there is only one plus - no ignoring the core mechanics of rage for 2h slayer/choppa without Power Throught/Wot Rules tactic(they are mostly furious when doing their main dps).
The pros are over - now the cons:

1. The most obvious one is that there is nothing here that would warrant such drawbacks. Not in damage, not in utilities. Not justified at all, esp if compare with others dps in this patch - WL still strong(st dps is still great, not great with surv of pet, but still good), WH(aoe options + build variation), Marauder (very strong st damage in Sav/Brut or Brut/Sav builds), WE(aoe options + super strong st dps, def WE buffs -_____-) - in backgrounds of this chars SL and Choppa is looking weird. They do the same thing as others(mostly) only with drawbacks, this is taking into account the condition like "spellbreaker moment". Not good.

2. This nerf doesn't correlate with the dual slayer/choppa variation at all. A dual slayer/choppa simply isn't suited for it. There is also nothing in it that would cause such a debuff - its wasn't good rewarded before, now its super not rewarded for risks.Even if cancel ID damage nerf.
I don't take into account builds like PT/WR dual builds, because u will not
rich dps lvl of others classes while maintaining really bad survivability, which makes these builds completely marginal.

3. Worsening of already weak points.Honestly, I don't understand why it was necessary to make these things worse:

3.1. Survivability, it's clear, I won't go into much detail. Suffice it to say, you receive far more pressure than you create, which is funny for the most tunnel damage archetype. You can drop rage even with not drop tactics(detaunt), but its create a big dps window(even in 2h non PT/WR builds your need a lot of rage for "rotation"), while your opponents just can do free preassure on you and your mates and just win fights easy. The main save for archetypes like this always was the preassure what they made, not true anymore.

3.2. Weakness against rdps. Your drop rage for not taking extra damage on you,while trying to rich rdps, doesn't work - while you are running you again has +25% of damage on you again(after full drop you are in furious after 4 seconds). Charge into Valhalla with near 100%.
The list could go on, but I think this is enough. Ofc its affected other types of CC (esp knokdowns)

Changes for the slayer(and sometimes choppa) reviews:

1. Rampage -a very strange thing. Personally i have exp where i use rampage, then going for solo dps WE and it parryed 3 times in row/ going for sorc/shammy with remnants of the rampage and its parry my ability like HD or Death Blow . Thoughts about use rampage and numbing strike on something like sorc or shaman not very stupid now.

2.Spellbreaker - can't say that i'm happy. I think the old variation was better. Personally, want more base dps for this ability(not dps from removing Absorb and one Enchantment or Blessing).
3. Devastate good change.

4. Cleft in Twain - really good change which adds behavioral variations. Really good work.

5. Inevitable Doom - damage reduction on main target is bad idea. It's one of the core abilty for dual SL in non solo build for samllscale and largescale. Less variations to play with - while others chars can pick different builds(several st builds + AoE), SL/Choppa force into one st build and one aoe build. Group archetype. Weird and bad.
Make ID what it was before the ability rework . Old Short temper is gone. If it would be too strong, just not cd reduction for ID without Accuracy tactic and deal with it.(Absolutely true for choppa's FS too)

6. Spine Crusher - same as ID if talking about variaty of specs. Make it was before. Combined with ID, it will allow you to play dual spec at small scale + This will justify a new short temper.(Absolutely true for choppa too)

7. Fierceness - good change.(Absolutely true for choppa too)

8. Pulverizing Strike - ok.

9. Precarious Assault - ok.

10. Deathblow - ok, but still delay in damage and animation. Not fixed and idk why.

11. Flurry - good.

12. Wild Swing - good.

13. Even the Odds - good, but cd is too long.(Absolutely true for choppa too).

14. Retribution - ok.

15. Short Temper - if fix Spinecrusher - its ok(Absolutely true for choppa too).

16. Fierce Might - ok

17. Power Through - good to see its now affected by detaunt, but as i said before - too much dps windows(even with new CIT) + less surv while furious - much less preasure - win for the opponents.

18. Breaking Point - good for burst in concept but have some significant disadvantages - If you try to use it at its maximum potential(fast switch Devostate- SP(crit) - Incapacitate - DB (second crit) ), the burst will be blurred.Reasons - Incapacitate gcd and damage delay on DB. If you dont use PT or determination tactic u need + gcd for CiT. Ignores -100% crit rule, which is good. Suggestion: rework the tactics to resemble Gut Ripper. Now only Devostate launch the tactic proc, but next 2 Exhaustive blows will do auto crits.

19. Violent Impacts - strange thing. Assist tank? Or aoe frontline with wild swing???

20. Determination - ok for a variations of 2h builds.

21. Runic Blessings -

22. Accuracy - ok.

23. Honor Restored - good for solo.

24. Invigorating Release - good. Really good.

25. Got No Time For You - really good tactic. Its good decent in all builds and the only one good thing for dual sl in this patch without drawback like ID damage.(Absolutely true for choppa too)

26. Embrace the Pain - ok.

[CountTalabecland]

I don’t understand why this topic still hasn’t been addressed. Where are the devs at on this? Can we get some explanation for these changes instead of silence?

[Alubert]

As for the yellow debuff, it doesn't bother me at all. But if there is such a negative perception among SL/choppa, then maybe it should be considered.

Spine Crusher/GFDSS - the skill requires positioning and should not have its damage reduced.

ID - I wouldn't reduce the damage on the main target.

The best change is Short Temper/Red Goes Faster!
Brilliant. I build around this tactic.
Finally, a tactic that makes it worth replacing Brute Force.

[eigner93]

Problem with these classes is that in order to do as much damage as other classes we have to became the squishiest classes in the game on the frontline. Especially slayer because choppa atleast has a big wounds tactic and an extra cc.

[ravezaar]

I don’t understand why this topic still hasn’t been addressed. Where are the devs at on this? Can we get some explanation for these changes instead of silence?

yea I wanan hear from them aswell, but given its bin Holiday times I assume they bin busy. Hope they respond soon tho cause SL/Choppa is in such a poor state now I shelved it. U cant really play it anymore and it needs to be adressed. I dont think Devs tested this huge nerf

[Alubert]

Problem with these classes is that in order to do as much damage as other classes we have to became the squishiest classes in the game on the frontline. Especially slayer because choppa atleast has a big wounds tactic and an extra cc.

There is absolutely no place for wounds tactics.
You have others that you need to put on.
What extra CC? You're not talking about GTDC free immun, are you?

[Bozao]

I had already addressed this in a thread shortly after the unbalancing patch.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=59968

Apparently, the rebalancing team is completely private and closed to any feedback. They heard so many good ideas for this patch and none were taken seriously or even received any response.

[lumpi33]

Something feels weird with the current mechanic.

While I like the rage cost changes you are constantly fighting your own mechanic to not get red because you are getting hit way too hard when red but you need to be red to have access to certain abilities.

It is way too punishing when you are getting knocked down and have no chance to drop rage. Imagine a 3s KD while being red. You are eating so much damage. Not even a light or cloth armor class is taking that much damage in that situation. That feels wrong.

They also don't have an escape button like WEs/WHs with their disappear or WL/SH/SW with their bounce out or Mara with their aoe KD.

With the squishyness they have due to their class mechanic they should get something big in return for it. This shouldn't be higher damage only because it would be bad for the overall balance. Keep the damage slightly above the other mdps but give them better tools would be my suggestion.

So what could it be that would help Slayers/Choppas as build in mechanic?

First of all Id say that they need more survivability to actually do their job. They are melting too fast, especially when there is no guard. Their slightly higher damage doesn't justify such weak survivability. Therefore the yellow/red debuffs should be reduced.

And Second Id say their mechanic needs to provide something else to make it worth playing. With only slightly higher damage compared to the other mdps classes and a much weaker toolkit right now there has to be something in addition.
- Id say being snared is very painful for them since they have no pull or pounce. Something like 25% chance to resist snares in yellow and 50% chance to resist snares in red would help. (just an example)
- I think they need something to stop kiters and get to rdps. Something like a throw axe with a KD. (just an idea)

Before you shout that this would make them too OP I partially agree with you. In return some things should be nerfed down. Especially abilities like "Git stuck in" of the choppa. It is far too strong for a 20s group buff. Other group buffs like Leading Shots from SW are 10s only, 8% only, require a tactic, have a precondition and are not for the SW itself. See what I mean? The two group abilities of the slayer are much weaker. One (the AP one) is even useless these days because everyone has such high AP regen. Choppa has also much easier access to +crit chance with Big Bad Combo and tactics. I don't know who buffed this but Choppas had only 5% bonus on live, not 10% crit chance increase like in RoR.

TL;DR: Damage is roughly the same across all MDPS now. It is no longer the outstanding and unique thing of Choppas/Slayers. Therefore their survivability and toolkit needs to be strengthened (especially to counter ranged/kiters/high def tanks). Examples have been given in the text above. In return certain stuff needs to be brought down a bit (e.g. Git stuck in, Big Bad Combo). The rage spending was a nice idea but keep in mind that it now requires AP and rage and stance for certain abilities. That has to pay off better.

[JohnnyWayne]

Problem with these classes is that in order to do as much damage as other classes we have to became the squishiest classes in the game on the frontline. Especially slayer because choppa atleast has a big wounds tactic and an extra cc.

There is absolutely no place for wounds tactics.
You have others that you need to put on.
What extra CC? You're not talking about GTDC free immun, are you?

That is not true. For DW choppa you can either bring the crit or the wounds tactic. If you don't run AoE Setup, for example for SCs or small scale, you can even bring both.

[tsyuryu]

Especially abilities like "Git stuck in" of the choppa. It is far too strong for a 20s group buff.

i give you git stuck in and i want ap reduction for whole grp instead 25% attackspeed is great but no ap mean no damage