Rift and Magnet

[peterthepan3]

And as you can see from that screenshot, 200k+ damage and 3 KBs is not indicative of a good performance; more, people actually allowing your dots to tickle them. That isn't sustained damage any more than it is fluff damage.
Sustained damage doesn't account for much in a PVP environment. It's more suited to PVE.

[Penril]

And as you can see from that screenshot, 200k+ damage and 3 KBs is not indicative of a good performance; more, people actually allowing your dots to tickle them. That isn't sustained damage any more than it is fluff damage.
Sustained damage doesn't account for much in a PVP environment. It's more suited to PVE.

I dont think you understood why i posted that SS. Either that or i dont understand your post.

Oh well.

[peterthepan3]

I thought it was to show fluff damage actually accounting for anything My bad.

Magus can get top scenario damage...so can any other class. Doesn't negate from said class having huge flaws.

[Azarael]

They aren't viable?

Highest sustained damage in the game with modest burst potential.


Polar opposite of sorc and bw with the highest burst damage in the game but low sustained damage

Thats exactly why they arent viable and why i dont understand most of the suggestions here.

Modest burst potential is not viable and ****, highest sustained damage is complete garbage when healers can outheal it easily.

BW/Sorc are immolation/calamity beasts, built around the burst window making healers unable to heal it in short little time, SH/SW are not about mobility in most cases, is the burst what makes them viable.

Its not a **** rocket science to find that when the other 4 ranged archetypes are relying on burst to do anything what engi and magus need is burst to be competitive.

That or a total rework of hhow the game works.

This, for me, sets the tone for the rest of the discussion. It's exactly the issue - a class with a lot of sustained damage, some of it AoE, at the expense of burst is not relevant in a climate of powerful group healing and single-target burst focus.

[peterthepan3]

^
Nailed it to a T!

[Nameless]

not that will fix the class, cos there should be more changet to do so. But why not make magus/engies wear a meduim armor. The idea about tanky sustain dps class is good but that armor buff that they got is just a joke. There is a meduim weaver as healer, there is as mdps, there is as tank sloted FO.
Ofc there should be brought more things to line to make both classes valuable but that is good start imo

[Azarael]

Increasing the armor class is a defensive buff, and given these classes' lackluster offense, I'd prefer it if we started with more offensive-related propositions.

One thing to ask would be which offensive direction to go in - increasing their sustained DPS, giving them burst, a combination of the two (possibly based on mastery path), or something else entirely?

[bloodi]

Increasing the armor class is a defensive buff, and given these classes' lackluster offense, I'd prefer it if we started with more offensive-related propositions.

One thing to ask would be which offensive direction to go in - increasing their sustained DPS, giving them burst, a combination of the two (possibly based on mastery path), or something else entirely?

Look, increasing their sustained dps is complicated.

First, we have engi with Unashakable focus while Magus doesnt have it, that means that every Engi dot has to be balanced around the posiblity of doing 100% damage more for 7 seconds, while magus one doesnt. However if we are talking around single target cast times both have focused mind (this has troubled me for years, just why?) so if we are going to buff their dots across the board, unshakable focus needs to be in both or in none of them.

So the trees are Single target, Aoe pressure and close ranged damage/support, this can be argued to an extent but i think more or less it defines each of them.

Single target wise, Engi gets gutted by armor, Magus gets gutted by cast times and no autoattack, the magus issue is to an extent present on Bw/Sorc, their single target path per se, are real bad, like holy **** this doesnt kill anything but idiots bad but they are also unbuffable because doing so directly buffs their dot (which in their case is not pressure, is burst) spec, which is already great.

So a band aid would be giving magus a ranged autoattack (which also gives them a ranged snare thanks to Doks) and reduced cast times while engi needs to ingore armor somehow and also would love less cast time, however this is nothing more than a band aid.

The aoe pressure tree has the already mentioned issues of being well, pressure, whhich can be easily outhealed and frankly, i dont think buffing pressure is a good idea, thhere is nothing fun to die vs sustained damage you cant do **** about just like the opposite is true.

Their close range tree would imo be a good place to put defenses in, it actually does good damage iirc, problem is you last as much as a cheap purple medallion on the order Auction house if you ever decide to go to that range.

TL:DR Their single target path needs burst, their aoe pressure path its a mess than cannot be fixed and defenses on theh close range path wouldnt be a bad idea to try.

[Bozzax]

The real problem with magus/engi was always tied to dots with duration above 10s. Well that and 2x grp cleanse every 5s (100 feet) that just fck their sustained damage.

That is why they are good 1v1 and s..t in 6v6. Rift/mag makes them reasonable in RvR but that is about it.

[Landaren]

The argument keeps shift, from magus and engis are useless without pull to, we need more defense, to we can't burst like a BW or Sorc.

The pic from earlier speaks volumes to perspective, you did a boat load of damage, but had one healer, most likely for the entire SC group. High burst classes farmed low defense classes with impunity.