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Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

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MonkeyHead
Posts: 14

Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#11 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:18 am

I'd love to see a different experiment. We do the opposite and make it Premade only. If that's how it's supposed to go then let's enforce that. Let's make the game clearly state its end goal. I have a sneaking suspicion that gets an even more violent response. I think we will see that premades don't really enjoy other premades. I think 90% of the time they grouped up to gank pubs.

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Kazus
Posts: 11

Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#12 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:36 am

MonkeyHead wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:18 am
I'd love to see a different experiment. We do the opposite and make it Premade only. If that's how it's supposed to go then let's enforce that. Let's make the game clearly state its end goal. I have a sneaking suspicion that gets an even more violent response. I think we will see that premades don't really enjoy other premades. I think 90% of the time they grouped up to gank pubs.
I agree. Premades for the weekend event are only around because they want to complete the event fast and easy.

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wargrimnir
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Posts: 6968
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Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#13 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:38 am

Kazus wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:36 am
MonkeyHead wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:18 am
I'd love to see a different experiment. We do the opposite and make it Premade only. If that's how it's supposed to go then let's enforce that. Let's make the game clearly state its end goal. I have a sneaking suspicion that gets an even more violent response. I think we will see that premades don't really enjoy other premades. I think 90% of the time they grouped up to gank pubs.
I agree. Premades for the weekend event are only around because they want to complete the event fast and easy.
Yes, the game rewards you faster for coordinating a group. That's the point.
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janna
Posts: 28

Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#14 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:47 am

Pug problematic aside, it seems pretty pointless to have 50%+ xp/rp when 99% of the scenarios where you did not get roflstomped 500:0 by the game rewarding premade ( and i am fine with that) end something like 79:30. 50% more of almost nothing is still practicly nothing.

At least with chars below t4 there is no reason to play it. 15min to get something between 200 and 6000 xp in the end. Don´t know if this is intended.

edit: oh i forgot, at t4 it will surely the same problematic as with ranked. Don´t think it is fun when your ragtag premade of conquerer dudes get matched against a full sov group. So sadly there are to many flaws to play it, at least for me this weekend. But maybe others enjoy it.

Webbix
Posts: 1

Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#15 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:00 am

The only reason the game even remotely encourages premade play is because, the matchmaking is busted, I have been in groups of all healers.

The reason this feels bad is because now rewards are locked behind hidden requirements that don't seem fair. The people that make pre-made groups know that they are gonna roflstomp anybody using the matchmaking system (pugs) so their odds of getting their shinnies faster goes up. A premade groups does not want to face another premade group they want the path of least resistance.

No one cares about friendly competition or fairness so stop the "it's a game that encourages group play" act. Yes this is true, the game does encourage group play, that's why I am in a group of people whether premade or not, by default. What you mean to say is this game encourages people to beat the matchmaking system and in most cases new people have to learn this the hard way.

So scenario rewards from events are not easily accessible to someone that doesn't want to take the time to make an organized group, which also involves; spamming LFG (depending on how well connected they are), setting up a discord (optional but not ideal), finding the right 2-2-2 arrangement, being a leader, or just hoping the right 2-2-2 comes along for you.

So the what is the solution?
Premade vs Premade leaves out new people (kind of), casuals and/or folks that don't want to go thru the hassle of assembling a group.
Pugs vs Pugs includes a busted matchmaking system and friends aren't allowed to play together.
I think the compromise here is a matchmaking system that incorporates a 2-2-2 mechanic to at least give pugs a fighting chance. This also abandons the fact of premades in top tier gear absolutely smashing fresh 40's.

Also on a side note, this community is small, so when people bring something up like Premades in Event Scenarios maybe don't flame them into submission. It is only going to cause folks to lose interest. They aren't whiners, noobs, or bads, you don't have to cancel or berate them, instead direct them and encourage them to research more, promote conversation instead of shutting them down.

billyk
Posts: 48

Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#16 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:45 am

Webbix wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:00 am
I think the compromise here is a matchmaking system that incorporates a 2-2-2 mechanic to at least give pugs a fighting chance. This also abandons the fact of premades in top tier gear absolutely smashing fresh 40's.
Excellent idea in theory, but it won't work in practice because there is the problem that Order classes are all over the place: 2H SM is dps but would count as tank, AM is dps but would count as heal etc., which would result in not getting 2-2-2 even if it's 2-2-2 on paper. You have similar problems in city when the dps AM becomes healer champion and of course that doesn't work out. In essence, destro has more tank and healer classes while Order has more dps classes.

janna
Posts: 28

Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#17 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:06 am

Webbix wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:00 am
....

So scenario rewards from events are not easily accessible to someone that doesn't want to take the time to make an organized group, which also involves; spamming LFG (depending on how well connected they are), setting up a discord (optional but not ideal), finding the right 2-2-2 arrangement, being a leader, or just hoping the right 2-2-2 comes along for you.

...
Until this weekend i was able to finish every weekendscenario i played without a single premade in a very reasonable time (and with a lot of fun). You have to play maybe 5-6 scenerios more then with a premade, that was all. Could not see any problems here beside the strict 6v6 scenarios.

Sulorie
Posts: 5021

Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#18 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:20 am

billyk wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:45 am

Excellent idea in theory, but it won't work in practice because there is the problem that Order classes are all over the place: 2H SM is dps but would count as tank, AM is dps but would count as heal etc., which would result in not getting 2-2-2 even if it's 2-2-2 on paper. You have similar problems in city when the dps AM becomes healer champion and of course that doesn't work out. In essence, destro has more tank and healer classes while Order has more dps classes.
Do you intentionally spread misinformation or did you only made a wild guess?

Dps AM are under no circumstances considered a healer in city, as champs are selected by healing score and I doubt you want to tell me, that it was the only healer class in the instance. If so, one more reason not to join solo into city siege.

A 2h SM is not considered to be dps unless you slot certain tactics, which nobody right minded would slot to begin with. The weapon alone isn't the deciding factor, the protection score is and shield tanks have it a lot easier to raise it. 2h tanks can be top rank though, but it just means other tanks were slacking.
Dying is no option.

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Finblast
Posts: 6

Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#19 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:32 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:27 pm
Stop playing solo. You can join a group of people and play better. That's the natural progression of the game.

If you just want to pug and chill, there's a dedicated pug scenario for you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
That won't solve the problem of unfair matches, I don't want to play in a premade that stomps the opposite side 95% of the time. I want good and even matches, where you actually have to use your skills to win.

Sulorie
Posts: 5021

Re: Make Pug SC second Event Sc every week

Post#20 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:41 am

Finblast wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:32 am
wargrimnir wrote:
Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:27 pm
Stop playing solo. You can join a group of people and play better. That's the natural progression of the game.

If you just want to pug and chill, there's a dedicated pug scenario for you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
That won't solve the problem of unfair matches, I don't want to play in a premade that stomps the opposite side 95% of the time. I want good and even matches, where you actually have to use your skills to win.
You assume you win automatically just because you joined a premade? How about people, who put in the effort to form a group usually put more effort into their play as well?
There are people, who play solo, who know the buttons to press in order to play well but those usually wouldn't support such a thread.
Dying is no option.

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