Counterplay to Slayer & BW "trains"

[NSKaneda]

Ways to deal with SLA/BW stack depends on what composition you're playing with.

Basic tools would be to challenge, distracting bellow and slow them down, debuff offensive stats&resists, drain AP/Morale, lower crit chance, extend CD and cast times, aoe interrupts, punt their guards away, pressure healers/support, root&brake and yes - disarm and silence.

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

Yes its so imbalanced Destro win 75-100% of City instances recently

Because order are dumb enough to not play their best clases...you deserve being farmed.

For sure you, as a main slayer player, will defend that its balanced until the end of the world...and trying to hide how OP slayer is behing the wall of the fail of order as a whole realm => im not expecting any kind of honesty in your comments, we all know what slayer is....

When you face a proper wb with a stack of slayers played properly you know you are done, probably top guilds can try to outplay/counterplay but its a really hard task.

I don't have Slayer Main but do have a Slayer, but don't find it half as powerful as the forum here seems to think it is, due to Survivability issues I usually prefer to play WL. A fully enraged Slayer is squishiest class in game. SMASH guild don't even run with many Slayers in their City instance any more and they have some of the highest rr players on Order.

But I have been in City with Slayer train as Order and lost plenty of times, it just took better more adaptable play by Destro rather than the standard group up and aoe together and hope for the best. One instance we had 4-5 Slayers and were wrecked by a group which had 2 Range SH, 2 WE and a Black Guard all assisting the healers while avoiding the Slayers, which are supposedly the weakest Destro class in City but have tools to avoid melee ball and when assist properly on good targets you soon realise how squishy the Slayer and BW are.

Waiting for someone clever to say its a LTP issue on my side .....

half of the dps (4 of 8) was assisting on 1 target, for sure hard to keep him alive => but looks really low pressure for the other 23

One instance we had 4-5 Slayers => you made a wb with 4-5 slayers on purpose (full wb of 24man)? or was a casuallity?

[MMXX43]

...i wonder why morale dmg was nerfed after the aoe cap raised to 24 and other abilities that went out of control remained untouched....

Because you , destro , could build m4 wb wise under 30 secs and ez bomb everyone having 6 ! morale pumps on core while order has 3 ! toped by 2 ! cd decreasers + shammy + zealot.

Next.

[Banjomissen]

Yes its so imbalanced Destro win 75-100% of City instances recently

Because order are dumb enough to not play their best clases...you deserve being farmed.

Nothing wrong at all when the best arguement is play the right class or accept being farmed.

Same argument is used in all threads on this subject.

Is it too much to ask that all classes (Destro and Order) are equally viable in cities?

[Xergon]

I'd like to ask the community for tips to handle this very popular comp in Order premades that (at least on my end) very frequently turns into a loss in cities.

Strats that I currently know/heard from WB leaders/try to execute:

- Positioning: don't get caught/slowed by the melee ball, try to circle around it by applying your own AOE slows and DPS the inside at an angle. Issue is it's very hard for our DPS group to avoid slows themselves and once slowed, the capability to outmaneuver is limited. I also find that trying to execute this strategy frequently turns into very little DPS pressure while it is relatively easy for the opposing team to pick a slowed player or 2 and DPS him/them down quickly.

- Shatter Rampage: as a BO I make sure I'm focusing as much as possible on shattering Rampaging slayers to make our tanks/DPS defenses work again. Issue is that to shatter I need to be in melee range so I have very little time to execute that before melting myself. Waagh helps a lot here but there is still the GCD and wading through the midgets, tab-targeting until I see the debuff pop up. I think here what we could do better is assign tanks to slayers to take away that tab-targeting loss of time.

- Get to the backline to pressure healers: I find this comp usually brings an abundance of tanky WPs that sit in the ball so there are no proper "backlines". You can try and pester the RPs and AMs rezzing on the outskirts but then you are missing quite a lot of pressure/disrupt on the DPS train itself.

Questions/ideas:

- Would a very strong single target "assassin" team work? Say a BG to punt the highest dpsing slayer's guard and a couple WE/Choppas to DPS it down quickly before disengaging?

- Would a rDPS heavy comp with Shammy puddles stand a chance at DPSing the inside of the ball? It seems hard as Sorcs and Maguses need to stay still a little.

Please share what you can/want to help me out! Thanks.

As destro u have access much much ealier to things like m2 50% dmg output debuff, or even m4 itself, utilize it smartly, call rotations on it and u should be fine, Its ok if 1/2/4 ppl max dies but if more dies at same time it starts domino effect to wipe, dont get caught. U need to understand who has better melee train, if u bring like 4 Maras 4 Choppa maybe u can compete with some numbers of Slayers, but if u bring some other mixes of DPS then, you should play spread and try putting more pressure on unguarded healers out of position.

[emiliorv]

...i wonder why morale dmg was nerfed after the aoe cap raised to 24 and other abilities that went out of control remained untouched....

Because you , destro , could build m4 wb wise under 30 secs and ez bomb everyone having 6 ! morale pumps on core while order has 3 ! toped by 2 ! cd decreasers + shammy + zealot.

Yes bombing with slayers is > 180 IQ

[emiliorv]

Yes its so imbalanced Destro win 75-100% of City instances recently

Because order are dumb enough to not play their best clases...you deserve being farmed.

Nothing wrong at all when the best arguement is play the right class or accept being farmed.

Nothing wrong at all when best arguement to defend how broken is a class is that your whole realm is complete fail.

[Kornaker]

...i wonder why morale dmg was nerfed after the aoe cap raised to 24 and other abilities that went out of control remained untouched....

Because you , destro , could build m4 wb wise under 30 secs and ez bomb everyone having 6 ! morale pumps on core while order has 3 ! toped by 2 ! cd decreasers + shammy + zealot.

Yes bombing with slayers is > 180 IQ

Bombing with Slayer make them dumb so they don't take WH dragon gun and SW skirmish to AOE morale dump and win... Brain dead meta...

Maybe you all prefer pirateship ?

[Oglaf]

The melee trains aren't an issue. Both sides can run equally good trains. It is just a matter of organization on either side - setting the train up with a 2/2/2 Warband.

The problem is Rampage in a siege setting. Funnel-wise. Order has the ability to simply disable the core mechanic of Destro tanks at the push of a button. How are Destro tanks supposed to be able to hold, for example, a Fort Lord room when they take undefendable damage not only from the Slayers themselves, but also from their Guard (because, due to how RoR works in contrast to WAR, your Guard dmg will inherent the Undefendable property if your Guardee is hit by a Rampaging Slayer).

[merfp27]

The melee trains aren't an issue. Both sides can run equally good trains. It is just a matter of organization on either side - setting the train up with a 2/2/2 Warband.

The problem is Rampage in a siege setting. Funnel-wise. Order has the ability to simply disable the core mechanic of Destro tanks at the push of a button. How are Destro tanks supposed to be able to hold, for example, a Fort Lord room when they take undefendable damage not only from the Slayers themselves, but also from their Guard (because, due to how RoR works in contrast to WAR, your Guard dmg will inherent the Undefendable property if your Guardee is hit by a Rampaging Slayer).

I was actually just about to ask this myself. What counterplay tactics are there when tanks and mdps have no choice but to push head on and the back line can’t be harassed?