stats Armor vs Toughness

[Acidic]

Hi/
need some info to try to understand better which stat i need to focus more on.
currently i take more damage from physical attacks, cant figure which helps more armor or toughness. greatful for the feedback.

[Lileldys]

Armour mitigates more physical damage per talisman than toughness.
iirc, each 150 armour talisman reduces phys damage by ~4%, and you can have 8 slots to slot these in.(5 slots from armour, 2 weapons(except staffs) and 1 from Skaven Quest ring) This will equate to 32% phys damage reduction from just talismans. WP/DOK with this setup usually has around 80% phys mitigation, with cloths at around 55-65%

Issue with toughness is it mitigates 1:1 vs str/intel/ballistic. So 800 toughness will cancel out 800str per say.
You'd get 170ish toughness from talismans, not much at all! It'd be possibly worth it to stack toughness maybe if you can get it to 800-900ish

Exception to this is tanks where you can get enought toughness to make it worthwhile

[Kali14]

But tougness reduce all damage, magic, melee dps and range dps. 500 tougness is -100 damage from each hit. This is a lot, especially for damages per second, even if you got 3 dots per second. Armour don't reduce spiritual, corporeal and elemental damages. Most of dps can reduce your armour and resistance stats. Tougness is not important for PVE, there is only armour important. Some like that:)

[sullemunk]

But tougness reduce all damage, magic, melee dps and range dps. 500 tougness is -100 damage from each hit. This is a lot, especially for damages per second, even if you got 3 dots per second. Armour don't reduce spiritual, corporeal and elemental damages. Most of dps can reduce your armour and resistance stats. Tougness is not important for PVE, there is only armour important. Some like that:)

I think it even reduces it more, because a dev said iirc that toughness reduction is somewhat tied to casttime and dot duration of the ability you are defending against.

[Jaycub]

it is, toughness acts as the exact opposite of say str or intel. So abilities that scale with intel more than the implied +/- 100 from 500 of a stat also receive increased negative effects from toughness.

So if like a skill that has a 3 sec cast time gets 300 increase damage from 500 intel, would in turn receive 300 less damage from toughness rather just 100 less damage taken.

Or at least I think thats how it works :^)

@OP you pretty much can't go wrong with stacking armor unless you are a tank, if you are mainly worried about phy damage you will def be getting more out of armor talismans. Armor although is a bit more tricky than toughness because it doesn't scale linearly and has certain thresholds to deal with, for instance WL/Mara armor debuff is about 1200-1400 armor removal... if you only have 800 armor and fully deck yourself out in armor talismans it wont really do much against those classes.

[Genisaurus]

But tougness reduce all damage, magic, melee dps and range dps. 500 tougness is -100 damage from each hit. This is a lot, especially for damages per second, even if you got 3 dots per second. Armour don't reduce spiritual, corporeal and elemental damages. Most of dps can reduce your armour and resistance stats. Tougness is not important for PVE, there is only armour important. Some like that:)

I think it even reduces it more, because a dev said iirc that toughness reduction is somewhat tied to casttime and dot duration of the ability you are defending against.

That would have been me, yes:

Spoiler:

This is a common misconception that comes from trusting the character sheet to tell you jack ****. I seriously hate it so much.

It's better to think of Toughness as a 1:1 reduction of the enemy's damage stat. Different abilities scale differently with stats, and all scaling is modified by the cast time. If you only think of it as a damage reduction, you are often underestimating (in some cases over-estimating) it's effect.

So for example, Doombolt gets a 3x contribution from Intelligence (actually it's 1x from Int and 3x from cast time, but it's the same here), and so you get a 3x contribution from Toughness. If the enemy has 1050 Intelligence (+210 DPS x 3 = +630 DPS), and you have 600 (-120 DPS) Toughness, her damage will be calculated as if she only had 450 Intelligence (3x 90 DPS = 270 DPS).

So in short, your 600 Toughness isn't reducing your damage by 120, it's reducing your damage by 360.


When it comes to DoTs, the Toughness reduces the contribution of the damage stat before the ticks are divided up. It's not a straight reduction from each tick.

For example, Heavy Blow's DoT efect gets a 4x contribution from Strength, and let's say it ticks 3 times because I don't really know off-hand. 1050 Strength is (210 DPS x 4) 840 DPS for the total lifetime of the DoT, but that's +280 damage per tick. Your Toughness comes in as above, reducing the contribution by 4x, so it's 450 Strength (90 DPS x 4) 360 DPS, which is +120 damage per tick.

Once again, your 600 toughness isn't reducing the damage of each tick by 120, it's actually reducing it by 160.

Long story short, never trust the character sheet to tell you anything useful.

[sullemunk]

Whats the damage reduction priority process? is it:
Guard (if avalible) -> Absorb(if avalible) -> Toughness - > Armor/Resist ?

[roadkillrobin]

Toughness is really hard to compare to armor or ressistance coz they work so diferently.
100 dps reduction can vary from 2% - 50% reduction. With armor talismans you pretty much know what you get. Reduce the amount by 35% from armor (due to avrege weaponskill) and thats pretty much how much mitigration you gaonna get.

[Keyser]

But tougness reduce all damage, magic, melee dps and range dps. 500 tougness is -100 damage from each hit. [...]

Your example is not correct. Lets say you have 500 toughness as you mentioned and 40% somewhat resistance. Then toughness mitigates only 60 because it is mitigated first. The more resistance you have the less important toughness gets!

Edit: sorry my original post got lost.

[normanis]

i put tough in every talisman slot and run around with 200-300 str , i cant even stop enemy because they parry/block my attacks because of less strenght. when i change tough yewel to str yewel, than i reduce my tougness to 550 and become squishy as tank. what is the gold midleway for tanks to be tanky einugh and do some damage or atleast stop enemy to hit my party members? do i need furtile strikes train from rr? i also got max block