stats Armor vs Toughness

[roadkillrobin]

Whats the damage reduction priority process? is it:
Guard (if avalible) -> Absorb(if avalible) -> Toughness - > Armor/Resist ?

From moast of the calculation's i've done it's.

Guard/Detaunt - Avoidance (Block/Parry if tank or small scale/ block/disrupt for orvr) - Armor/Ressistance - Absorbs- Crit Reduction - Wounds - Toughness

Once you get over around 80% + physical mitigration toughness becomes alot better. And when toughness gets better so does absorbs.

So if 80%+ armor mitigration use this priority.

Guard/Detaunt - Avoidance - Absorb - Toughness - Armor/ressistance - Crit Reduction - Wounds.

[roadkillrobin]

But tougness reduce all damage, magic, melee dps and range dps. 500 tougness is -100 damage from each hit. [...]

Your example is not correct. Lets say you have 500 toughness as you mentioned and 40% somewhat resistance. Then toughness mitigates only 60 because it is mitigated first. The more resistance you have the less important toughness gets!

Edit: sorry my original post got lost.

No toughness reduce dmg before armor and ressistance mitigration.

[Acidic]

it is, toughness acts as the exact opposite of say str or intel. So abilities that scale with intel more than the implied +/- 100 from 500 of a stat also receive increased negative effects from toughness.

So if like a skill that has a 3 sec cast time gets 300 increase damage from 500 intel, would in turn receive 300 less damage from toughness rather just 100 less damage taken.

Or at least I think thats how it works :^)

@OP you pretty much can't go wrong with stacking armor unless you are a tank, if you are mainly worried about phy damage you will def be getting more out of armor talismans. Armor although is a bit more tricky than toughness because it doesn't scale linearly and has certain thresholds to deal with, for instance WL/Mara armor debuff is about 1200-1400 armor removal... if you only have 800 armor and fully deck yourself out in armor talismans it wont really do much against those classes.

Thanks. this is what i missed. could not figure out why WH hurt so much. Armor debuff i suspect i forgot about.
P.S thanks for the help from the rest of the thread. was very helpful.

[Keyser]

But tougness reduce all damage, magic, melee dps and range dps. 500 tougness is -100 damage from each hit. [...]

Your example is not correct. Lets say you have 500 toughness as you mentioned and 40% somewhat resistance. Then toughness mitigates only 60 because it is mitigated first. The more resistance you have the less important toughness gets!

Edit: sorry my original post got lost.

No toughness reduce dmg before armor and ressistance mitigration.

Thats what I wrote but not what you wrote in your previous post. So I guess it is a mistake.

Whats the damage reduction priority process? is it:
Guard (if avalible) -> Absorb(if avalible) -> Toughness - > Armor/Resist ?

From moast of the calculation's i've done it's.

Guard/Detaunt - Avoidance (Block/Parry if tank or small scale/ block/disrupt for orvr) - Armor/Ressistance - Absorbs- Crit Reduction - Wounds - Toughness
[...]

Thats not correct. You can check here for example: http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Armor .

Edit: After reading it again I think now I know what you meant. You or I completely misunderstood this post

Whats the damage reduction priority process? is it:
Guard (if avalible) -> Absorb(if avalible) -> Toughness - > Armor/Resist ?

[roadkillrobin]

My post was what about wich order you should prioritize stats not the order it's calculated.

And this:

Your example is not correct. Lets say you have 500 toughness as you mentioned and 40% somewhat resistance. Then toughness mitigates only 60 because it is mitigated first. The more resistance you have the less important toughness gets!
.

Doesn't really make sence to me. You say toghness is mitigrated first so you get less mitigration from it becose of ressisttance/armor???

[Keyser]

My post was what about wich order you should prioritize stats not the order it's calculated.

Yes, and I think his post was about the order of dmg-mitigation.

And this:

Your example is not correct. Lets say you have 500 toughness as you mentioned and 40% somewhat resistance. Then toughness mitigates only 60 because it is mitigated first. The more resistance you have the less important toughness gets!
.

Doesn't really make sence to me. You say toghness is mitigrated first so you get less mitigration from it becose of ressisttance/armor???

Ok, maybe I should have used terms like net and gross. Lets do a plain simple example without any fancy outgoing dmg-calculation or crits:
your opponents outgoing dmg is 1000, your dmg mitigation by toughness is 100 and you also reduce the dmg by 40% by some resistance. Then the dmg you take is:
(1000 - 100) * 0.6 = 600 - 60.
So the "net mitigation" by toughness is 60. Thats what I tried to say previously and hopefully succeeded to illustrate here.

[roadkillrobin]

Ehmmm what???
If toughness reduce the dmg by 100 then it's 100
Do you mean that you get less % coz higher ressistance reduce a bigger chunk of it?

In this example toughness would reduce the damage by 5.4% If you had a ressistance of 30% instead. it would have been 6.3%. (Excuse me if my math is wrong i'm dead tired)

So yeah the less armor/ressistance the better toughness gets. But the numbers are so small thats baicly nothing. 10% less mitigration vs 0.9% growth from toughness.

[th3gatekeeper]

My post was what about wich order you should prioritize stats not the order it's calculated.

Yes, and I think his post was about the order of dmg-mitigation.

And this:

Your example is not correct. Lets say you have 500 toughness as you mentioned and 40% somewhat resistance. Then toughness mitigates only 60 because it is mitigated first. The more resistance you have the less important toughness gets!
.

Doesn't really make sence to me. You say toghness is mitigrated first so you get less mitigration from it becose of ressisttance/armor???

Ok, maybe I should have used terms like net and gross. Lets do a plain simple example without any fancy outgoing dmg-calculation or crits:
your opponents outgoing dmg is 1000, your dmg mitigation by toughness is 100 and you also reduce the dmg by 40% by some resistance. Then the dmg you take is:
(1000 - 100) * 0.6 = 600 - 60.
So the "net mitigation" by toughness is 60. Thats what I tried to say previously and hopefully succeeded to illustrate here.

So tell me if I am thinking about this wrong....

Based on some rough calculations, lets just assume that 1 tali worth of STR/Intel provides ~ 1.3% damage increase. Also an equivalent armor tali, will provide ~4% mitigation.

So I know its not 100% correlation to in game, but the rough math should apply. Lets hypothetically say as a tank, you sit at 75% damage mitigation from armor. I think 70% is the cap correct?

Most DPS that attack you, will have easily 25%+ armor pen via weapon skill. This puts you down to 50% via armor.

so for every 100 damage you currently take only 50 of that via armor (toughness irrelevant here since were just looking at INCREASE over baseline).

So say you can throw on a toughness tali or armor tali.

Toughness: 100 is dropped down to 98.7 (1.3% loss) and then now cut in half via armor = 49.35 net damage.
Armor: 100 remains, however your now a net 54% armor (up from 50) meaning a net = 46 damage.

Since we reduced 4 damage OF 50, this was actually a 8% difference in damage (not 4%).

The only "downside" to armor is that it doesnt affect sources of damage that are spirit, corp, ele, etc... But it does seem that even on a higher armor class, like a tank, you still get fantastic value out of armor talis....

[th3gatekeeper]

My post was what about wich order you should prioritize stats not the order it's calculated.

Yes, and I think his post was about the order of dmg-mitigation.

And this:

Your example is not correct. Lets say you have 500 toughness as you mentioned and 40% somewhat resistance. Then toughness mitigates only 60 because it is mitigated first. The more resistance you have the less important toughness gets!
.

Doesn't really make sence to me. You say toghness is mitigrated first so you get less mitigration from it becose of ressisttance/armor???

Ok, maybe I should have used terms like net and gross. Lets do a plain simple example without any fancy outgoing dmg-calculation or crits:
your opponents outgoing dmg is 1000, your dmg mitigation by toughness is 100 and you also reduce the dmg by 40% by some resistance. Then the dmg you take is:
(1000 - 100) * 0.6 = 600 - 60.
So the "net mitigation" by toughness is 60. Thats what I tried to say previously and hopefully succeeded to illustrate here.

So tell me if I am thinking about this wrong....

Based on some rough calculations, lets just assume that 1 tali worth of STR/Intel provides ~ 1.3% damage increase. Also an equivalent armor tali, will provide ~4% mitigation.

So I know its not 100% correlation to in game, but the rough math should apply. Lets hypothetically say as a tank, you sit at 75% damage mitigation from armor. I think 70% is the cap correct?

Most DPS that attack you, will have easily 25%+ armor pen via weapon skill. This puts you down to 50% via armor.

so for every 100 damage you currently take only 50 of that via armor (toughness irrelevant here since were just looking at INCREASE over baseline).

So say you can throw on a toughness tali or armor tali.

Toughness: 100 is dropped down to 98.7 (1.3% loss) and then now cut in half via armor = 49.35 net damage.
Armor: 100 remains, however your now a net 54% armor (up from 50) meaning a net = 46 damage.

Since we reduced 4 damage OF 50, this was actually a 8% difference in damage (not 4%).

The only "downside" to armor is that it doesnt affect sources of damage that are spirit, corp, ele, etc... But it does seem that even on a higher armor class, like a tank, you still get fantastic value out of armor talis....

[roadkillrobin]

The cap from armor is 75%
But realisticly weaponskill gonna reduce somewere between 35-50%
At endgame on live tanks ran around with something like 110% armormigration without potions. Wich translate to an avrege of 60% mitigration before debuffs. Even with the worst armor debuff in the game and the averge weaponskill you'd still mitograte something like 50% of the physical dmg.
Maxing out on armor talismans gonna give you something like 15% more mitigtstion. after worst debuff and avregee WS. At that point you're looking at same mitigration vallues that stacking up on toughness talismans gonna give you. But toughness works against all types of dmg so it's just a better inevestment at that point. When exactly this turn around happens is hard to say considering how progressive toughness are. But i would guess it's between 80-90% armor mitigration.