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Overarching balance changes

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Moderators: Developer, Management, Community Management

Poll: Which game mechanic needs to be changed the most?

Guard
25
9%
Cleanse
65
23%
Buff/Debuff stacking
10
4%
Critical damage
33
12%
%Damage mitigation abilities (Detaunt/Challenge/ID/Bellow etc...)
12
4%
Softcaps
10
4%
Morales
13
5%
Group Heal
24
9%
Armor/Resistance stacking and penetration
28
10%
Crowd Control and immunities
58
21%
Total votes: 278

Dabbart
Posts: 2091

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#81 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:49 am

Spoiler:
Annaise16 wrote:
Vigfuss wrote:
Annaise16 wrote: They argued long and hard that RP could be tankier and harder to kill than the WP. And yet I just watched their 6v6 against CCM, and Gankbus clearly targeted the RP first and killed him in under 3 seconds in both fights. If they believed what they said and weren't just trying to con us, why didn't they target the WP first? Why did they find it so easy to kill the incredibly "tanky" RP?

PS. And it isn't subjective unless you are arguing that a 10% block strikethrough is as good as a 10% parry bonus. Is that what you believe?
They played Order at least as much as Destro, probably more actually, so i don't think they're biased in that sense.

As far as balance between 10% parry and 10% strikethrough, if you only compare that by itself of course they're not balanced but that's not how WAR is balanced. The realms are quite well balanced (not mirrored) and both SM and WL have a place in the Order FOTM 6 man. Buffing the FOTM is usually not a good idea.

I'm not saying they're always right, no one is. All I said was, love them or hate them, their input was valuable. The fact that you don't like them doesn't make them wrong.

I'm pretty sure that War was balanced with the 10% parry versus 10% parry strikethrough at launch. I think the devs changed it to block strikethrough in 2009. The complaints at the time were about 2H dps tanks being too effective and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason for any change. Maybe someone who was playing at the time has better recall of this.

There were also a lot of complaints about Ravage at the time and it was also apparently nerfed.
Isn't that the reason the 2h change Aza posted way a few months ago wasn't input? Cause of the impact it would have on Tanks?

I would fully support 2h giving parry strike-through. But the point of how it affects Slayer/choppa and wp/DoK doesn't take into consideration that every tank can go shield or 2h, WL 2h(or single for some weird reason) and that WE/WH are forced dual wield. If down the line, class changes are input to allow more alterations of how you equip, IE allowing for 2h or duel wield on more classes, then I think it would be more balanced.

And about the RP question, just cause an RP CAN be super tanky, doesn't mean that particular RP IS. Same goes for every class. It is dependant upon the particular build/player... Theory crafting is one thing, situational awareness is another.

Edit: Your point is still valid though. The dev team always needs to take player input with a large grain of salt.
Azarael wrote:
Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:30 pm
It's only a nerf if you're bad.

(see, I can shitpost too!)

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Sizer
Posts: 216

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#82 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:03 am

I dont see how people arent picking crit damage. The whole reason wps and doks were never nerfed in the first place is that damage in this game was so high you would have no chance of surviving with nerfed heals, since every group was running at least one of them in the first place (yes, I know you and your buddies ran am/rp and zealot/shaman groups and won every fight you were ever in, good for you, who cares).

TB was a bandaid, a bad bandaid that killed build diversity, but it was still necessary on the old server to lower damage enough to make nerfing wps/doks possible, even if those devs never got around to those nerfs. I wasnt happy that it was removed on this server before more changes were done (with the gear we have now its not as bad as say, rr100 gear without TB, but its still pretty bad), but if anything major is going to take place crit damage, and damage in general, has to be looked at across the board.
Aenea - SW / Aeneaa - AM
Sizer - Shaman / Artsupplies - Sorc

Annaise16
Posts: 341

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#83 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:09 am

[quote="Dabbart

Isn't that the reason the 2h change Aza posted way a few months ago wasn't input? Cause of the impact it would have on Tanks?

I would fully support 2h giving parry strike-through. But the point of how it affects Slayer/choppa and wp/DoK doesn't take into consideration that every tank can go shield or 2h, WL 2h(or single for some weird reason) and that WE/WH are forced dual wield. If down the line, class changes are input to allow more alterations of how you equip, IE allowing for 2h or duel wield on more classes, then I think it would be more balanced.

And about the RP question, just cause an RP CAN be super tanky, doesn't mean that particular RP IS. Same goes for every class. It is dependant upon the particular build/player... Theory crafting is one thing, situational awareness is another.

Edit: Your point is still valid though. The dev team always needs to take player input with a large grain of salt.[/quote]


The only point of difference between the 2 realms in the 2H v dual-wield argument is that giving extra parry strikethrough makes WLs and dps WPs more effective against toons that have stacked Parry. Against this, marauders and dps doks have better defence against melee.

Every other consequence of any change would apply equally to both realms.

Annaise16
Posts: 341

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#84 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:16 am

Sizer wrote:I dont see how people arent picking crit damage. The whole reason wps and doks were never nerfed in the first place is that damage in this game was so high you would have no chance of surviving with nerfed heals, since every group was running at least one of them in the first place (yes, I know you and your buddies ran am/rp and zealot/shaman groups and won every fight you were ever in, good for you, who cares).

TB was a bandaid, a bad bandaid that killed build diversity, but it was still necessary on the old server to lower damage enough to make nerfing wps/doks possible, even if those devs never got around to those nerfs. I wasnt happy that it was removed on this server before more changes were done (with the gear we have now its not as bad as say, rr100 gear without TB, but its still pretty bad), but if anything major is going to take place crit damage, and damage in general, has to be looked at across the board.

TB, FS, etc weren't the only new defensive measures introduced with the rr80+ change. They also made crit more expensive to get using renown points while decreasing the renown costs of defensive abilities like block, parry, dodge, and disrupt. Overall, they made it much easier to improve survivability using renown points than was the case before the rr80+ expansion.

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Yardy
Posts: 123
Contact:

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#85 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:31 am

sablasni wrote:aoe punt sw/bo have are useless they just give free immunity at least they could be given a more range
AoE punt is Great!
like what the other bloke said, it gives one of your mates enough time to get heals back from a melee train focus, and its great for clearing a Flag camp in a SC, allowing it longer for a flag cap, or getting one back. Can be game changing in one of those scenarios , (it was great in that Lava SC too, punting toons out of line of sight down the hill, or into lava)
CRUDE big boss! (Scrubs can lead too)
Yardpig- Black Orc

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bctakhy
Posts: 110

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#86 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:13 am

Jaycub wrote:
bctakhy wrote:
Sure... give WP Khaine´s Withdrawal but give DoK free AoE detaunt on off hand like WP gets on 2h and wounds buff :D
Also will be fun see chopas with untouchable and maras with spameable pounce...
AH! and dont forgot to give chosen 15% extra heal and 10% crit to all group ;)
And my fauvorite for last... parry buff for WEs :roll:
Want more?
Pack it up order, how can you ever recover from this?

I'm a #DestroDog now!
U can go forums cry for nerfs the few things destro have...

Btw, when magus will get AoE heal for all ppl around, even outside WB that stack up? Same day as sorc gets KD?

Is patetic play in the easy mode side and go cry foruns for try get more advantage :lol:

User avatar
roadkillrobin
Posts: 2771

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#87 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:19 am

There's a couple of morales that need fixing, but i don't think any of the listed game mechanics are broken in any way.....
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Sera
Posts: 84

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#88 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:34 am

noisestorm wrote:What the hell is a channeled CC that gives no immunity? O_O
Zealot's AoE knockback, Choppa's AoE pull, these can't be defended against and give no immunity, can't be stopped in anyway, but killing the caster. I thought It was soo obvious... :roll:
Sera

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Sera
Posts: 84

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#89 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:41 am

Corvineus wrote:Hmmm I don't agree with Sera's first note.

I think if you wanna give everyone the same mechanics it takes out the point of playing a different class for their unique contribution to a setup. Like, a good runepriest > A decent WP anyday.

...
DoK's only got their cleanse towards the RR100 times, when WP's not being able to cleanse any ailments, especially heal debuffs, did not mean a problem, cause they just burt healed through it. Currently a WP has not enough healing potential to do this, while a DoK also has a morale cleanse and DoKs can cleanse most of the heal debuffs and dangerous debuffs order has. Your personal preference on a healing class means nothing in terms game balance. ;)
Sera

User avatar
Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: Overarching balance changes

Post#90 » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:41 am

bctakhy wrote:
Jaycub wrote:
bctakhy wrote:
Sure... give WP Khaine´s Withdrawal but give DoK free AoE detaunt on off hand like WP gets on 2h and wounds buff :D
Also will be fun see chopas with untouchable and maras with spameable pounce...
AH! and dont forgot to give chosen 15% extra heal and 10% crit to all group ;)
And my fauvorite for last... parry buff for WEs :roll:
Want more?
Pack it up order, how can you ever recover from this?

I'm a #DestroDog now!
U can go forums cry for nerfs the few things destro have...

Btw, when magus will get AoE heal for all ppl around, even outside WB that stack up? Same day as sorc gets KD?

Is patetic play in the easy mode side and go cry foruns for try get more advantage :lol:
Magnificent work in comparing single aspects of classes.

No, seriously. Get out.

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