Racial group fixing.

[footpatrol2]

Ok here are some suggestions on how to fix the game from mythic’s slow distancing from racial groups. The idea behind this write up is to allow a more diverse style of play into the meta. To allow players that wish to participate in a same race faction groups to be competitive. I think this game can support both styles of play: Mixed groups AND racial groups. Currently there is interest in this game on racial groups. Look at all the roleplay guilds. There would be more interest in racial groups if changes were made to restore some rollbacks on abilities. I am willing to bet that at least half of the community is Warhammer fantasy fanboy’s and would love the idea of racial groups.

Essentially this post is wishlisting. A lot of this is rollbacks but with a twist. There is nothing exotic in what I am suggesting. These are conservative changes. There are slight nerf’s to mixed groups in these suggestions but most of them are slight. There are also slight buff’s. These suggestions would have an effect on mixed groups. But any change has an effect on current meta mixed groups.

Please try to understand my perspective. I stumbled upon something and thought it was extremely cool. Same race groups having their own unique fighting styles. Since people weren’t doing it and it is pushing against the grain and I was told it couldn't be done, I ran with it. I discovered this in mid 2009. I started to see slowly as the game progressed these unique fighting styles that each faction had get gutted by mythic. I played this game till near death. It believe it was a missed opportunity for the gaming community. I believe mixed groups and racial groups can co-exist.

Hopefully we can have some constructive conversations on this.

There was a sweet spot with racial groups which was patch 1.3.4. When 1.3.5 was implemented is when mythic started to give up on the idea of trying to support racial groups and just accepted that it wasn’t going to happen. Patch 1.4.0 was when the old renown system was removed which removed the racial morale gain tactic.
Here is the patch of 1.3.5 I was talking about.

http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/G ... nd_Careers

Here is the suggestions list.

Fix morale gain. Currently morale gain is too slow and doesn’t match the mythic servers full group morale gain speed. It is correct with a solo player morale gain. Morale gain is not the same as it was in a full group. In a full group morale 4’s could be achieved in 100 seconds. Currently morale 4 are achieved in 360 seconds. The difference is massive. Timing is everything with morales. Mixed groups don't make use of the spec specific morale 4's. Racial groups can make use of the spec specific morale 4's. The morale 4’s in racial groups cannot correctly synergize due to the extreme slow morale gain in RoR. There is a lot of synergy with racial morale’s to include the spec specific morale 4’s in racial groups.

Drain morale upon death. Currently your morale is not drained upon death like how it was on the mythic servers. You were rewarded for killing players by stripping their morale. There is strategy in killing specific players to decrease the morale bomb or break/interrupt a defensive morale cycle’s. Specifically among the more defensive factions such as dwarves and chaos.

Give by default same race groups 5% morale gain per same race member in your group. This was originally in the game through racial renown tactics. This would give racial groups a total of 25% more morale gain then mixed groups. This provides an incentive and a slight or not so slight competitive edge for same race groups to compensate for their weaknesses. This would allow same race factions to gain their morale 4 in 75 seconds. Where purely mixed groups would gain their morale 4 in 100 seconds.

Specific fixes starting with

Dwarves
Runepriest: Make mountain spirit last 30 sec’s but have it only affect dwarf players within the group. It won’t be able to stack with knight aura’s. Currently mountain spirit lasts 10 sec’s it used to last 30 sec’s. Currently players favor focused mind over this so it doesn’t really affect mixed groups that much.

Ironbreaker: Make Gromril plating affect the group but only dwarf players. Currently Gromril plating only affects the ironbreaker himself. It used to affect the entire group. This is a buff to the current double slayer make up group in mixed groups.

High Elves
White Lion: Make WL pounce ability cause AoE damage again. Ya it breaks staggers. Oh well it’s the cost of pouncing around. It is a pro/con to pounce around. There is synergy with the AoE damage that WL’s produce on the pounce in the High elf groups. This is a slight nerf to mixed groups based on stagger.

Archmage: Bolstering Boon tactic. Have this tactic give morale gain based off of lambent aura ability so this tactic gets more use. Have it only affect high elf players. Players don't see enough value in hard casting boon of hysh. So attach it to the instant cast like Dok's. The placement of the bolstering boon tactic is important and shouldn't be changed from a 8 point tactic. This is so Non isha AM's can still pick it up in thier off-spec.

Dark elves
Blackguard: have brutal smash go back to being a disorient to how it used to be. Blackguards share the archtype role of the swordmaster and lost his disorient to mirror the mechanic of the ironbreaker. The length of the disorient is tied to how much mechanic points the Blackguard has.

Disciple of Khaine
This is a big one. Get rid of the Group cleanse tactic and replace it with something inventive but powerful. Dok’s have access to group cleanse via morale 2 ability. Dok's don't have to spec into their group cleanse but they have to spend morale to use it. WP have to spec into their group cleanse but don't have to spend morale. Dok's did not originally have a group cleanse tactic.

Make Restored Motivation tactic increase morale gain by 250 to the target that is affected by it like how it used to be but only Dark elf players are affected by the morale gain portion from the tactic. The placement of the Restored Motivation tactic is important and shouldn't be changed from a 8 point tactic. This is so Non Dark Rites Dok's can still pick it up in thier off-spec.

1001 blessings brought back to 30 second duration but only affects dark elf players. The resist, armor and avoidence buff does not stack with any other faction specifically chosen aura’s. Which was the issue on the mythic servers. 1001 blessings is CRITICAL to the Dark elf faction. This is how the dark elf faction gains a permanent resist buff as a faction. 1001 blessings is CRITICAL to the balance of the blackguard as a class. 1001 blessings is currently not being used due to its short duration currently in mixed groups.

Chaos
Chosen: Move sprout carapace back to morale 3 ability. Have Sprout carapace only affects other chaos faction players. Have it not affect other factions. Return impenetrable armor back to the morale 4 in the corruption tree.

Zealots: Remove Eye of Sheerian's armor and resist buff. Return Eye of Sheerian to a group Heal 100ft over time of 9 sec’s. I’m not sure the healing amount. But it used to be this.

Magus: Remove the deamonic reach tactic. It wasn’t there in the original design. Replace it with the old redirection tactic: anytime you disrupt a spell you gain 75 AP. Remove the AP feed from indigo fire of Change upon killing a enemy. Move indigo fire of change to the 13 point ability in the Changing tree. Move mist to the 9 point ability in the changing tree. This is how the tree was originally set up as far as abilities. You lose the reach tactic but gain your mist earlier then engineers.

Greenskinz
Shaman: Eeek used to be a random punt and random self punt ability. Currently Eeek is subject to CC immunities due to it’s current punting nature. Just have Eeek Self punt directly backwards and remove the punt ability from Eeek.

Black Orc: Move down ya go to da brawler tree 9 point ability. Move Not in da face to the 9 point ability in da toughest tree. Down ya go used to be in da brawler tree as the 9 point ability. Make 'You got nuffin' back to a anti detaunt tactic. Black Orc’s share the same archtype as the Ironbreaker. They are both the physical damage/buffing tanks. The 9 point down ya go is there because of the ironbreakers cave in ability which is also 9 point ability. This was how the tree was originally set up. It makes more sense to have not in da face in the toughest line as it was. This is due to the cooldown and duration of not in da face. Not in da face is single target shatter limbs and can by cycled with two toughest tanks for 100% upkeep.

Although the Black Orc shares the same mechanic as the Swordmaster they are the same archtype as the ironbreaker. They are the buffing tanks and are the physical damage tanks. Where the swordmaster is the anti magic tank and is selfish like the blackguard. Black orcs and swordmasters share the same mechanic and same role. Their role is the Roaming tank. If asked I can talk more about archtype, mechanic and role of classes.

Here are my suggestions to help make racial groups back to being competitive. I’m not asking for buff’s for racial groups. I’m asking to get what we had lost as the game changed and suggesting a different approach to what mythic decided to due instead of just cutting it out of the game like mythic did. I’m sure I have missed some stuff but this is the big stuff. Yes double slayer groups with gromril plating will be a pain. That is more of a issue specifically with the slayer’s damage output and not the over-arching balance of same race groups.

Originally I suggested that all different faction buff’s shouldn’t stack among the races. I felt that may have been too extreme. Here is a suggested compromise.

[Jaycub]

Destro biased devs will never fix morale gain, morale pump will stay S+++++ tactic 5ever screencap this.

[Gachimuchi]

how bout we don't change things for no reason

[wargrimnir]

On topic or don't post. It's not that hard.

[Miszczu5647]

I would like to hear "more about archtype, mechanic and role of classes". I don't know if you are right or wrong becouse I don't know enough about the game. But it is interesting from historical point of view and make sens on paper. And I love greenskins group idea

[Bozzax]

One question, what hard proof is there that mythic designed racial group?

Having read countless intervjus and scavenged the net for Warhammer info myself I've actually never seen traces of this idea outside of the ROR forum.

Keep it short please and preferably with external sources backing it up.

[TenTonHammer]

Not this nonsense again

No this game does not need racial morale pump tactics

Am, Chosen and BO morale pumps are extremely strong and this game is ment to be played with mixed and matched racial groups if this wasn't the case then different races woundlt be able to travel to diffrent racial pairings and form parties toghter


How much longer are you going to keep trying to force this

[footpatrol2]

In short, I don’t have a document I can point too. It was assumed in the initial stages of development (guess). What hard proof do you have that I am wrong. Show me a document that this game is suppose to be played mixed and only mixed. Show me a document that this game isn’t suppose to support racial groups or what I’ve written about.

I’m not saying this game wasn’t suppose to be played mixed. I’m saying that it was suppose to be played mixed and also supported racial groups. Guessing the dev's probably thought 50% of the game would be racial. It supported racial groups for a long time. There is still strings of racial group crap all over this game. You'd have to make a new game and restructure everything to get rid of it. Again, I’m not saying mixed groups were never part of the design. You just got additional benefits for running a racial group. Like the racial morale’s making more sense with faster morale gain.

Look at High elves and the damage types. Look at how they can drop spirit resistance to near zero. Look at the pairings they are pitted against the dark elves. Look at how high blackguards can get their disrupt too.

Look at the racial renown tactics you could have slotted in the old renown system. To gain max effect you would all slot the same stuff in your 6 man group. Those tactics were RvR tactics, meaning they were suppose to be used in RvR. What sent me on this journey was the racial morale gain renown tactic where you would gain 5% additional morale per same race member.

Morale’s if you remember were suppose to be the cannon on the back of a chariot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zJdEeIrUv8

If you could get your cannon faster by having a same race group why wouldn’t you do it?

Racial morale’s don’t really make a ton of sense in mixed groups because they are racial. The archetype and career morale's are favored generally because they are being played in a mixed group. Racial morales make more sense in racial groups. All of the spec specific morale 4’s are racial.

All the old early video footage with the dev’s playing the game was done in racial groups. I’ll only list a couple. Most of this is before open beta. From the video’s I’ve seen of closed beta video footage they were all racial

Spoiler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe0-cD_tSzw
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/v ... ction=view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdU45LJ8mT4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bel4IUNgpzc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19sV9Y7D9yQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdS9j1PjWHM

Look and understand the patch history. I can’t go into full detail on this because you want me to keep this short.
Look at the guild heraldry. 1/4 of the heraldy is mixed. 3/4th's of the heraldry is racial.
Look at the zone pairings.
Look at the animation colorings.
Know and understand the class history of all the classes.
I’m stopping here to keep it short.

[Jaycub]

I don't really get why everyone always shits on you honestly. Racial groups could be a cool thing, and it's not like the meta groups are even remotely one sided towards a certain race. Making decisions based on race on top of what we have now to gain access to something new or some kind of synergy could add more depth to the game.

Morales are a big part of the game and with how things are now rank 4 morales are pretty much a myth for classes without a pump and rank 3's are pretty rare.

[Dabbart]

I think footpatrol22 gets the hate, because of the way he states his "facts". He "guesses" that they "assumed" that racial groups where the meta in the initial stages of development. Then uses the Religion argument, "I can't prove it, but you can't DISPROVE it!". Oh and the endless theory-crafting...

Honestly? I kinda like not having the constant M4 dumps. Making M4 take a super long time to gain w/o specifically specing for it is kinda nice. I've never been a fan of undefendable damage. But I also hate the Punt mechanic... I am a strange one.

In regards to the Racial grouping... I would like to see something there. Just not a bullshit gain to morale. It would improve some races far more than others, which is why blanket bonus' or penalties are generally not good. Now, something Lore/RP friendly? Designed for each race to give a semi-standard but "cool" bonus would be nice. Honestly however, I just see it as a way to increase the power-gap in the player-base and adding to a predetermined "meta".

I believe that there is a reason the racial tactics were removed.