Classes Order and Destro - Opinions - Not a Balance Thread

[freshour]

Hi everyone, I hope you are all having a great Easter weekend. I had the privilege of being off this weekend unlike many but I was able to do quite a few SC's this morning and the pug sc was a really fun one in that of Reikland Factory. You rarely get good PUG date outside of a pug SC so I took the time to write down quite a few of the random comps and as anyone would expect they were all over the map but with more and more of them the normal pattern of order > destro rdps & destro > order mdps. Healers were a bit of toss up.

I've played both order and destro extensively in SC's. Maybe not more time wise than others, but I have definitely taken any class I've SC'd with seriously and tried my best to learn from the best on not only what to use, but how to use them and what I might be using properly.

This thread is not about suggesting what should be changed as there are tons of threads about that.

But in general, I want to know these things for data.

1. What classes do you really like, lets go with 3.
2. What about the class do you like?
3. What about the class do you dislike?
4. How do you feel the most useful in a scenario.

Don't go overboard with this last one.

5. Why do you think order generally has more rdps vs destro mdps. In my roughly 7-8 months of playing granted there was a large break in there. It was a lot simpler than it seemed. Most destro melee just like the way they looked. They loved yelling WAHGGG and Chosen loved looking amazing with a huge sword. Knight's loved feeling like an immovable object and IB's loved the dwarf talk and some people just can't get enough of how a dwarf looks and will play them til they die! Which is good! I'm passionate about my DoK and WP. I love those classes to freaking death.

1-4 are very simple to answer. 5 I only want your opinion of why you tend to play melee, or why you tend to play mdps and state if you are order or destruction.

Note: Lets keep this constructive, not a balance discussion, not "he has this but I don't" and definitely not "Screw WL!!!!!!"

Thank you! I look forward to getting as much useful data/information and hopefully having a good conversation.

[Telen]

I think if you generally look at the design of the classes thats where the disparity comes from.
The quintessential race classes tend to be range for order and melee from des.
Like you get Legolas and Wizards on order vs Goblins and lore breaking emos on des.
Also if youre a warhammer buff the lore breaking classes are rdps for des and mdps for order.

[freshour]

I think if you generally look at the design of the classes thats where the disparity comes from.
The quintessential race classes tend to be range for order and melee from des.
Like you get Legolas and Wizards on order vs Goblins and lore breaking emos on des.
Also if youre a warhammer buff the lore breaking classes are rdps for des and mdps for order.

Ohhhh I actually didn't know that about the lore. Thanks for the info!

[viking132]

I've got 2 favorites black orc and choppa really but i play a healer sometimes too when I get tired of the front lines.What I like about the black orc is that he can push out quite a bit of damage for a tank and the "combo" system I find keeps me entertained stacking my buffs then slapping debuffs on the enemy then do my standard dps combo as well as keeping healers from spam healing with a cool down debuff.
With the choppa It's a ton of fun to chase down people with low health with your charge and your later abilities help you reduces the amount people are healed which is great if you have a small group against a healer. However you are essentially like a glass cannon you really can't stay alive long enough to get the damage out without a guard and good heals. In sc's on my black orc i feel particularly useful getting my cooldown debuff on healers and keeping squishy dps guarded or healers if ones taking alot of hits then bashing whatever is closest.
With my choppa I feel less useful as its very easy to die especially to concentrated fire but with a good organized group I can put out damage like a madman and it's satisfying.

[dansari]

As Telen said, I think you see more destro frontline in general because of the way the classes look. I don't really follow the lore at all, but for people who do, it plays into their decision making a bit. I think more people prefer the way the destro tanks look compared to their order counterparts, and more tanks means more opportunities for mdps to shine.

[ilyana1965]

Q1. What classes do you really like, lets go with 3.
First, I am a hardheaded Chaos magus; second, when I feel like poking things in the gizzard, I jump on my Witch Elf, and last, when I want to feel a real challenge, it's the Black Guard life for me.

Q2. What about the classes do you like?
The magus is a game of patience and endurance. Yes, your homey Tzeentch has your back, but if you push it, you will die. Furthermore, the Witch Elf has her vanishing act, which is uber sexy. Sneaking up with poison dripping from your dual blades is a blast. Last, the Black Guard (at least how I play them) is like the magus, a real balancing act. Mess up your combos, and it's time to hie thee hither to reset.

Q3. What about the class do you dislike?
Like I said, I'm hardheaded. There's nothing to moan and groan about here. For example, I am never out of "mana" on my magus because....that doesn't exist, which is perfectly fine with me.

Q4. How do you feel the most useful in a scenario.
I rarely pop into PvP, but when I'm in the mood, there's lots of fun to be had by toasting folks with the magus. But then of course, they toast me too, so I'm not the PvP expert to quote here.

[th3gatekeeper]

1. What classes do you really like, lets go with 3.
- Mara
- Chosen
- SM

2. What about the class do you like?
- Melee and hard to kill, damage is a "bonus".

3. What about the class do you dislike?
Chosen - lack of damage. Feels "slow" in movement speed.

Mara - Ummm... Oh! The fact that in any PUG SC or Warband you never get guard?

SM - due to NA ping (~150 on average) the stances feel VERY clunky. Youll be in range thinking you hit a button to swap stances, then press "stance 2" ability but still stuck in stance 1 because the ability never went off. It doesnt help that your "slow" is on stance 2 which COULD alleviate this if it were a stance 1 ability. This makes NerfButtons a necessity however you lose some ability to play the class when stance buttons are replaced with others etc. That + Slow movement speed.

4. How do you feel the most useful in a scenario.
Hmmmmm... On tanks I always guard MDPS and assist off them.
On Mara, I try and find another MDPS to assist off of (usually only PUG with my Mara alt). Try and get in, debuff, kill and sprint out.

[ToXoS]

1. What classes do you really like, lets go with 3.
SH and Sorcerer. That's the two classes that I really REALLY like. But If I had to choose another one, it would probably be the Marauder.

2. What about the class do you like?
SH: I like to solo roam with this class, as well as pugging in a wb and hunting down things with my squig. I also like the mobility and playing as a gobbo.
Sorc: I like the class mechanic, killing players with massive burst, and being close to kill myself because I channeled too much Dhar.
Mara: I like how the class looks, and spreading Chaos corruption to my ennemies. Also, it's a marauder of Tzeentch, my favorite Chaos god.

3. What about the class do you dislike?
SH: The lack of burst and the current level of mitigation caused by armor stacking, making the SH hitting like a wet noodle on a lot of classes.
Sorc: Nothing really. The sorc is great as it is right now. It can do his job as a DPS, and being killed quite easily as it should.
Mara: I don't like the lack of initiative inherent to the class, for no legit reasons. Also, swapping mutation in the middle of a fight is not the easiest thing to do (at least to me).

4. How do you feel the most useful in a scenario.
I don't play SCs

[Aurandilaz]

Oh but I cannot choose, I like many many chars. Current favourites, WL, WE, BG, Sorc, WH, Sm, AM, Shaman, Choppa... so little time, so many alts...

I like classes that are mobile, have high damage and can pretty much take someone 1v1 and win often enough. Or with Shaman and AM, reach damn high heal numbers when I feel dedicated enough to make it rain green numbers.

I dislike being bursted down in extremely short time periods, though then again I can confess that if the damage takes too long to arrive, after 5th or 6th second I probably already have detaunted, potted and fled the scene. (meaning most of time I either die within 3-4 seconds or manage to escape, but there are very few classes that can manage insane burst in that short timeframe....)

Usually I feel most useful when I'm stabbing hacking chopping slashing smashing bursting down anything that is red and tries to move. I can honestly confess that I give noshits about various scenario mechanics and I mostly queue so that I can hit something with something.

Honestly both sides have a lot of rdps, however Destro certainly seems to have more mdps chars. This can be partially explained by WEs being 5-10% more better than WHs (I have both in t4, and can say WH is somewhat less potent), and that Marauders are damned good with mdpsing. Meanwhile the WL population seems to be doing well, but as said, WHs are a bit undermanned lately, and good choppas/slayers do need that guard+heals to perform properly, which does not happen that often it seems. Order ranged arsenal happens to be also very potent, with BW enjoying niceties such as ranged KD, same with SW, and Engis also seem far more numerous than Magi for a variety of reasons. There are also certainly more dawi roleplayers than Chaos roleplayers around.

[TenTonHammer]

But in general, I want to know these things for data.

1. What classes do you really like, lets go with 3.
2. What about the class do you like?
3. What about the class do you dislike?
4. How do you feel the most useful in a scenario.

Don't go overboard with this last one.

5. Why do you think order generally has more rdps vs destro mdps. In my roughly 7-8 months of playing granted there was a large break in there. It was a lot simpler than it seemed. Most destro melee just like the way they looked. They loved yelling WAHGGG and Chosen loved looking amazing with a huge sword. Knight's loved feeling like an immovable object and IB's loved the dwarf talk and some people just can't get enough of how a dwarf looks and will play them til they die! Which is good! I'm passionate about my DoK and WP. I love those classes to freaking death.

1.Choppa, Blackguard, Chosen
2. Black Orc, Witch elf, Ironbreaker
3. White lions, SW's , Witch Hunters
4. Spamming AoE punts :^)

5. Becuase order players are cowards who dont want to risk taking a mace to the face and damainging their delicate elven features

jokes aside

Because since the days of T1-T3 and still in T4 Ranged was fundamentally superior to mdps and since Order had no classes that looked as fabulous as destro classes all of them rolled rdps

I renember t1 where 90% of the order zerg was rdps, just armies of dps ams, SW's and BW's and since they invested so much time into their original rdps toons and see them still very effective in orvr, they stuck with them