Old Renown rank system

[Dabbart]

Doesn't that reward those at the higher spectrum more-so than simply having more points to spend though? Not to mention limiting builds and specs and promoting cookie cutter RR builds.

As I said. If you want to reserve Crit/CW/RD for RR30+ that would be one thing, and there would be grounds for a discussion around that. But requiring people to take stat boosts or racial bonus' was poor implementation imo.

[th3gatekeeper]

I hated that system with a passion. The stat creep was crazy with later gear as well.

Why try to balance the game towards lower RRd players... I mean, I would get saving certain RAs for 30-40 points spent, but that system just sucked.

It meant you had to build up to the good stuff instead of going hur hur crit right off the bat, This is much more appealing to me, investment and reward than low hanging fruit which is how I see trees being as well, the good stuff highest up the tree, not a place to hide the crap.

I agree, but am concerned with the impact this would have on gameplay... right now I always grab block/parry/dodge&disrupt on my tanks. Grabbing stats instead would make me much squishier... in a game dominated by rdps.... not having the dodge/disrupt would lean the "meta" even more in that favor... not having parry or block would make me eat a TON more guard damage....

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of gating some of the good stuff like crit.... but that's my concern. The melee classes seem they will get the brunt of that change.... maybe I'm wrong.

[th3gatekeeper]

Doesn't that reward those at the higher spectrum more-so than simply having more points to spend though? Not to mention limiting builds and specs and promoting cookie cutter RR builds.

As I said. If you want to reserve Crit/CW/RD for RR30+ that would be one thing, and there would be grounds for a discussion around that. But requiring people to take stat boosts or racial bonus' was poor implementation imo.

Yeah, this seems all it would do is people stack primary dps stat then crit. Which many already do, just the opposit priority (now going crit then dps stat).

I think there is a better way... I just wonder what that better way is... if maybe creating a system of diminishing returns could be better... So as an example...


Parry. First 1 point gives 3%. By the final rank your spending 10 to get 6%. That's a clear diminishing return. However with the stats... it seems it's all linear if not maybe even better where you get such a lower return early and it scales up with cost, not down....

So this would create a higher stat pool availability to those that diversify in stats.... but be more restricting to.someone who wants to stack 1 thing (crit or whatever)....

So that's what I would encourage. The first ranks giving greatest return/cost ratio.... with larger ranks costing more for a similar return.... if look at making all ranks maybe cost the same but give less and less each rank, rather than more. Or, each rank gives the same return, but costs more and more. Either works.

This also lowers the gap between high rr and low rr players...

[roadkillrobin]

The main problem with the old system is that some classes or even individual specs are kinda dependant on stuff like block or healcrit and need as much as possible of it to be competeble and then struggles to gain renown coz they don't have access to it. Then with the new system others classes and specs just boost their allready good state by getting acess to more of something when they are not supose to.
This is why gear on early live wasn't streamlined in such a way that all healers basicly have the same set of Annihilator for example. RP/Zealot is extremly crit dependant and by denying em acess to early crit via renown would need to be compensated either by their class tactics, in wich they basicly have non or by tweaking the gear so they have more of it then the other healers do. Another way of doin it could be by giving em base healcrit increase tho.
Anyway, this is very, very complex and would probobly need individual developers working on each class mirror in conjunction with a new renown system being developed.

[FlyingApron]

Very good info, thanks guys.

[Atropik]

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of gating some of the good stuff like crit.... but that's my concern. The melee classes seem they will get the brunt of that change.... maybe I'm wrong.

You are 100% correct.

[Tesq]

There are good things and bad one

-armor and resistences from renow
-No crit till rr 40+ ( and need to invest first 40 rp)
-no renow skill
-anti meta tactics vs meta classes with dmg increase/decrease

Are the good one...

-dodge/disrupt separated
-generally not good cost for stuff

Are the bad one for exemple

Both system should be mixed
Basically 1.4 system should be rewamped like old one and missing stuff like armor and resistence etc added.

[th3gatekeeper]

I really think the issue is the stats not returning a healthy enough EARLY value to be attractive... (like all the other RR does)

Currently its:
(1) R1 = 4 stat
(3) R2 = 12 stat (16 total)
(6) R3 = 22 (38 total)
(10) R4 = 34 (72 total)
(14) R5 = 48 (120 total)

This just isnt as appealing as other things like crit - because you can get stats via talis and gear but cant always get crit... And the return on points spent doesnt make sense. I can spend 15 points to get 5% crit OR here... spend 10 points to get 38 of a stat? Even if I hybrid that I could spend another 4 in another stat to get 16 + 38 = 54 stats vs 5% crit... The return is just too good on crit compared to such a LOW return on the stats that I can get "elsewhere"....

How it SHOULD be is something like this: (created by mimicing the diminishing returns on dodge/disrupt)

(1) R1 = 12 stat
(3) R2 = 18 stat (30 total)
(6) R3 = 24 stat (54 total)
(10) R4 = 30 stat (84 total)
(14) R5 = 36 stat (120 total).

So now... I take "14 points" (vs 15 for 5% crit) and I can buy 54 stats for 10, and another 30 for 4 points giving me a total of 84 stats vs 5% crit... Now thats a LOT more of a tradeoff..... We added 30 points to the mix.. Thats much harder to pass up...

The issue with these stats is its currently all linear. So for every 1 RR spent, you get 4 stats. It shouldnt be that way, it should be diminishing returns where the earlier points give the highest return. This way, you are MUCH more likely to see people spreading points around. Picking up a few wounds, a few initiative, etc. You might see a ton of people buying the first 1 or 2 ranks of various stats, because for say 5 points you can pick up 60 stats! (if you get 5 rank 1s vs 5 points for 2% crit).... Thats a no brainer to me.... Ill take the 60 stats vs 2% crit

This also spill over into making RVR a better place because defensive stats would be easier to come by (wounds/tough/init) if you want them.

Or even looking at a skill like CW. Currently 10 points gets CW and 20 makes it 2min.
So you can CURRENTLY get

38 stat vs 5 min CW.
OR
72 stat vs 2 min CW..... Thats not a tough call... CW is amazing versus that tiny return on stats....

NEW system: (two stats)
10 points = 54 stat vs 5 min CW... thats a tougher call.
20 points = 108 stat vs 2 min CW... Now its a much harder call... Or even if you spread that around MORE

NEW system (5 stats):
20 points = 150 stat vs 2 min CW... thats a HUGE "tradeoff" now.... Although the 150 is spread around between everything (wounds/tough/init/stat/stat) but still.... thats a really tough call now.

I think this system would be more appealing to spread RR around rather than stack on 1 or 2 really good things.... I see the "stat return" as the primary issue... its all linear unlike the other things that provide a diminishing returns value - making it more appealing to get the bigger earlier benefits like crit, or CW, or RD.

The only OTHER thing you may consider... Is beefing up how much stats are offered via the stats.... for instance. Maybe increasing from 120 to say 130:
(1) R1 = 14 stat
(3) R2 = 20 stat (34 total)
(6) R3 = 26 stat (60 total)
(10) R4 = 32 stat (92 total)
(14) R5 = 38 stat (130 total).

So now 20 points spread out between 5 stats (ranks 1&2 of each) = a whopping 170 points! vs a 2 min CW or 5% crit.... Id rather take the 170 even if it was all spread out....

I think you get the idea....

[footpatrol2]

I think the idea of this old renown rank system is that as you level up your character you would also be leveling up your renown rank. So when you enter t4 you would be renown rank 30 and when your level 40 you would be renown rank 40.

This is not the case on this server because players rush to 40 and then have garbage renown rank.

[roadkillrobin]

Renown was much slower when they had the old system. I don't even remember anyone even beeing 80 when it changed. Moast high lvl players were in the 50's and 60's. And the power creep is much lower with it aswell as it is moastly stat based.