Healing in RvR - renown

[Draugris]

Tbh i don´t understand the discussion for a large part . On live with all the RR leeching and stuff it was over the top, i get that.

But anything healers want is to be rewarded for doing their job protecting people aka healing, shielding, dispelling etc. And if i am on my wp of course i also do out of group healing if time and ressources are availabe, what the heck, i don´t let anybody die if i can do something against it. That´s why i rolled a healer and even if there is no "gm enforced trinity" the game has one and ever had. So telling me i have to choose between saving somebody or spending ressources for damage to get my rewards, i don´t know is very strange. If in the future melee healing wp is more accessible i will do that. The thoughts posted here for OOG healing imo are very interesting so that alone shows me that not all of the devs think that dmg is all. Hopefully they find the time do try it.

[Bozzax]

SUBTOPIC RENOWN

Just need to know how how much xp/renown players should be given and when. Also what counts as a Deathblow? Anyone wanna help me out?

u

Hope this is of some use

@Deathblow
1. determine the BASE value of the killed player. Approx.. 10*(rank+renown rank)
2. apply any diminishing returns. Example 15 min penalty would be <time since death>/9000
3. distribute renown based on % damage dealt to killed player
4. share renown with ACTIVE group members in range (1/members)
5. assign the renown to the player (and group members)
6. [for each players] adjust renown based on rank + renown rank difference
7. [for each players] apply the players modifiers
8. [for each players] increase player renown and increase the “heal renown pool “of that player

Patch 1.1.0b onwards

• Renown gains: This patch includes a significant fix to the amount of Renown gained in both open Realm vs. Realm combat and Scenarios. The intent of this change is for players to gain Renown based on the differential between a player's Rank and Renown Rank. The examples given below are based on solo Realm vs. Realm confrontations without any sort of bonuses and with both players being of the same Renown Rank (differences between RRs also affect RPs awarded):
o If a Rank 40/Renown Rank 1 solo kills a Rank 31/Renown Rank 1, the Rank 40 will receive 206 Renown as a reward.
o If a Rank 40/Renown Rank 1 solo kills a Rank 18/Renown Rank 1, the Rank 40 will receive 70 Renown as a reward.

Notice that this is a larger reward than the Rank 40 would receive with the previous system (51 and 5 respectively).

Assumptions
• No other changes were made to the formulas after 1.1.0b
• Renown base value is a linear function (y = kx + m)
• How renown gets adjusted is a linear function*
• Only the difference between attacker and the dying defender determines the adjustment

Example a level 5/1 killing a level 15/1 gets adjusted the same amount as a 10/1 killing a 20/1 (diff 10)


Yields
Renown base patch 1.1.0b y = -10.462x + 300.15
(Renown base patch 1.1.0a y = -3.5385x + 82.846)

Thus @41/1 you have a renown base value of ~300

Rank + Renown Rank | 1.1.0b base | 1.1.0a base

Spoiler:

120 878 242
119 871 240
118 864 238
117 857 236
116 849 234
115 842 232
114 835 230
113 827 228
112 820 226
111 813 224
110 805 222
109 798 220
108 791 218
107 783 216
106 776 214
105 769 212
104 761 210
103 754 208
102 747 206
101 739 204
100 732 202
99 725 200
98 717 198
97 710 196
96 703 194
95 695 192
94 688 190
93 681 188
92 674 186
91 666 184
90 659 182
89 652 180
88 644 178
87 637 176
86 630 174
85 622 172
84 615 170
83 608 168
82 600 166
81 593 164
80 586 162
79 578 160
78 571 158
77 564 156
76 556 154
75 549 152
74 542 150
73 534 148
72 527 145
71 520 143
70 512 141
69 505 139
68 498 137
67 490 135
66 483 133
65 476 131
64 469 129
63 461 127
62 454 125
61 447 123
60 439 121
59 432 119
58 425 117
57 417 115
56 410 113
55 403 111
54 395 109
53 388 107
52 381 105
51 373 103
50 366 101
49 359 99
48 351 97
47 344 95
46 337 93
45 329 91
44 322 89
43 315 87
42 307 85
41 300 83
40 293 81
39 286 79
38 278 77
37 271 75
36 264 73
35 256 71
34 249 69
33 242 67
32 234 65
31 227 63
30 220 61
29 212 59
28 205 57
27 198 55
26 190 53
25 183 51
24 176 48
23 168 46
22 161 44
21 154 42
20 146 40
19 139 38
18 132 36
17 124 34
16 117 32
15 110 30
14 102 28
13 95 26
12 88 24
11 81 22
10 73 20
9 66 18
8 59 16
7 51 14
6 44 12
5 37 10
4 29 8
3 22 6
2 15 4
1 7 2

By examining the % change @40/1 the adjustment factor is approximated
Adjustment value in patch 1.1.0b y = -0.0289x + 1.1397*
(Adjustment value in patch 1.1.0a y = -0.0507x + 1.2446)


*obviously it isn't a linear function!

Attacker - Defender | 1.1.0b adjustment | 1.1.0a adjustment

Spoiler:

40 0,00% 0,00%
39 1,26% 0,00%
38 4,15% 0,00%
37 7,04% 0,00%
36 9,93% 0,00%
35 12,82% 0,00%
34 15,71% 0,00%
33 18,60% 0,00%
32 21,49% 0,00%
31 24,38% 0,00%
30 27,27% 0,00%
29 30,16% 0,00%
28 33,05% 0,00%
27 35,94% 0,00%
26 38,83% 0,00%
25 41,72% 0,00%
24 44,61% 2,78%
23 47,50% 7,85%
22 50,39% 12,92%
21 53,28% 17,99%
20 56,17% 23,06%
19 59,06% 28,13%
18 61,95% 33,20%
17 64,84% 38,27%
16 67,73% 43,34%
15 70,62% 48,41%
14 73,51% 53,48%
13 76,40% 58,55%
12 79,29% 63,62%
11 82,18% 68,69%
10 85,07% 73,76%
9 87,96% 78,83%
8 90,85% 83,90%
7 93,74% 88,97%
6 96,63% 94,04%
5 99,52% 99,11%
4 102,41% 104,18%
3 105,30% 109,25%
2 108,19% 114,32%
1 111,08% 119,39%
0 113,97% 124,46%
-1 116,86% 129,53%
-2 119,75% 134,60%
-3 122,64% 139,67%
-4 125,53% 144,74%
-5 128,42% 149,81%
-6 131,31% 154,88%
-7 134,20% 159,95%
-8 137,09% 165,02%
-9 139,98% 170,09%
-10 142,87% 175,16%
-11 145,76% 180,23%
-12 148,65% 185,30%
-13 151,54% 190,37%
-14 154,43% 195,44%
-15 157,32% 200,51%
-16 160,21% 205,58%
-17 163,10% 210,65%
-18 165,99% 215,72%
-19 168,88% 220,79%
-20 171,77% 225,86%
-21 174,66% 230,93%
-22 177,55% 236,00%
-23 180,44% 241,07%
-24 183,33% 246,14%
-25 186,22% 251,21%
-26 189,11% 256,28%
-27 192,00% 261,35%
-28 194,89% 266,42%
-29 197,78% 271,49%
-30 200,67% 276,56%
-31 203,56% 281,63%
-32 206,45% 286,70%
-33 209,34% 291,77%
-34 212,23% 296,84%
-35 215,12% 301,91%
-36 218,01% 306,98%
-37 220,90% 312,05%
-38 223,79% 317,12%
-39 226,68% 322,19%
-40 229,57% 327,26%
-41 232,46% 332,33%
-42 235,35% 337,40%
-43 238,24% 342,47%
-44 241,13% 347,54%
-45 244,02% 352,61%
-46 246,91% 357,68%
-47 249,80% 362,75%
-48 252,69% 367,82%
-49 255,58% 372,89%
-50 258,47% 377,96%
-51 261,36% 383,03%
-52 264,25% 388,10%
-53 267,14% 393,17%
-54 270,03% 398,24%
-55 272,92% 403,31%
-56 275,81% 408,38%
-57 278,70% 413,45%
-58 281,59% 418,52%
-59 284,48% 423,59%
-60 287,37% 428,66%
-61 290,26% 433,73%
-62 293,15% 438,80%
-63 296,04% 443,87%
-64 298,93% 448,94%
-65 301,82% 454,01%
-66 304,71% 459,08%
-67 307,60% 464,15%
-68 310,49% 469,22%
-69 313,38% 474,29%
-70 316,27% 479,36%
-71 319,16% 484,43%
-72 322,05% 489,50%
-73 324,94% 494,57%
-74 327,83% 499,64%
-75 330,72% 504,71%
-76 333,61% 509,78%
-77 336,50% 514,85%
-78 339,39% 519,92%
-79 342,28% 524,99%
-80 345,17% 530,06%
-81 348,06% 535,13%
-82 350,95% 540,20%
-83 353,84% 545,27%
-84 356,73% 550,34%
-85 359,62% 555,41%
-86 362,51% 560,48%
-87 365,40% 565,55%
-88 368,29% 570,62%
-89 371,18% 575,69%
-90 374,07% 580,76%
-91 376,96% 585,83%
-92 379,85% 590,90%
-93 382,74% 595,97%
-94 385,63% 601,04%
-95 388,52% 606,11%
-96 391,41% 611,18%
-97 394,30% 616,25%
-98 397,19% 621,32%
-99 400,08% 626,39%
-100 402,97% 631,46%
-101 405,86% 636,53%
-102 408,75% 641,60%
-103 411,64% 646,67%
-104 414,53% 651,74%
-105 417,42% 656,81%
-106 420,31% 661,88%
-107 423,20% 666,95%
-108 426,09% 672,02%
-109 428,98% 677,09%
-110 431,87% 682,16%
-111 434,76% 687,23%
-112 437,65% 692,30%
-113 440,54% 697,37%
-114 443,43% 702,44%
-115 446,32% 707,51%
-116 449,21% 712,58%
-117 452,10% 717,65%
-118 454,99% 722,72%
-119 457,88% 727,79%

Thus after patch 1.1.0b a solo deathblow done by (R/RR)
... 40/1 killing a 31/1 is rewarded 206 renown (as in patch notes)
... 40/1 killing a 18/1 is rewarded 70 renown (as in patch notes)

On to the dodgy ones (even though they are to high)
... 40/1 killing a 40/40 is rewarded 1328 renown (-39)
... 40/1 killing a 40/20 is rewarded 742 renown (-19)

... 1/0 killing a 40/80 is rewarded 4022 renown (-119, clap clap good for him)

MORE ON RENOWN

Players
• Every player has a base renown value (anyone has the real formula?)
• If the deceased player has been killed recently, they will be worth less renown than normal
• Directly after death a player is worth 0 renown
• Every player has a heal renown pool that builds up as you kill enemies

Objectives such as keeps, forts and battle objectives
• Has a capture reward. The amount of Renown granted increases in each tier (i.e. Tier 3 objectives are worth more than Tier 2 objectives)
• Has a renown pool that is dependent on the number of players killed in the area and is distributed evenly when objective is taken or successfully defended
• When you have control of a Battlefield Objective you will gain a 5% increase to renown. The effect of Battlefield Objectives stack, there for if you are holding two, you will get a 10% increase
• BOs T1=200 renown, T2=300, T3=400, T4=500 Rewarded at cap and after 3min defend (so 400 MAX in T1 for one BO)

Guild standards
• Has a capture reward (360-600 renown)

Zone capture
• (Taking over an enemy zone will give you a chunk of Renown worth roughly 5 times your base if you're actively fighting in RvR at the time of capture. Let's say your base Renown worth is 100 points, you'll be given roughly 500 points when a zone is captured)
• Bonus for battlefield objectives you’ve participated in
• Bonus for keep takes you’ve participated in
• Bonus for previous zone

Scenarios
• Yields normal renown for kills and heals
• Has a renown bonus at the end of a scenario equal to your teams score (0-500). Losing side receives half their score
• Winning by 500 yields an additional 100 renown bonus to the winning side

Renown from killing players
• Each player has a flat amount of Renown they are worth depending on their current rank (level) and renown rank
• The amount of damage done will determine your share of the killed players renown
• The acctual deathblow yields no extra reward it just triggers renown to be rewarded
• When one player is killed by another player, the deceased's player rank and renown rank are measured against those of the killer and the awarded renown is adjusted upward or downward based on the parity of the two players

Renown from healing players
• Healing players will grant renown only if the healed player has earned renown from killing other players recently
• Provided the targets (players) heal renown pool isn’t depleted you receive healed amount divided by 100 rounded down
• Requires both the healer and target to be RvR flagged
• Healer and healed not in same group

Renown from party
• Renown from kills is divided evenly among members in the group
• The party’s share is determined by the groups combined damage when divided with other out of party players or groups
• Group members must be active in RvR, and within a certain range of the nearly deceased individual to receive renown. "Active in RvR" means that you must have performed an action against another player or benefited an ally who is also active

EDIT:

One other area we are focused on for 1.3.0b is to better incentivizing open-field RvR. We want players to hunt each other, and that’s what RvR is all about -- crushing and out-thinking your enemies. With that in mind, we are literally multiplying your XP and RP gain when fighting enemy players around Keeps and Battlefield Objectives. The Field of Glory buff currently grants a 100% experience bonus in RvR Lakes when killing players. Players will now receive an additional 50% bonus to experience and a 150% bonus to renown when killing players near Battlefield Objectives or Keeps.

Compiled this 2015

Apart from OOG in scs and lava leech this was a better system (way better)

It gives a healer the option to play solo just like other classes when buddies are off line wo afking in the wb blob

[covenn]

If the current scenario situation and how renown works to fix the exploit of people being out of group and leaching stayed in place, for open world RvR the old live system as it was then would have been vastly more fair and balanced than it is now. Sure it was constant purple rain, but it was equitable to the amount of healing I did and comparable to the amount I would get on RDPS whether in group or out of group.

Personally, I think healers should have a little extra incentive in trinity games, but that is a different issue all together. People always seem to forget how reliant a healer is on literally everyone else when it comes to character advancement, especially when it comes to PvE requirements for RvR in most games. Solo leveling a healing class in many games is a bitch especially when you have brief and sporadic play times and cant get a consistent group together. This last paragraph is slightly off topic, so I will cease and desist on that rant.

[SilverWF]

If the current scenario situation and how renown works to fix the exploit of people being out of group and leaching stayed in place, for open world RvR the old live system as it was then would have been vastly more fair and balanced than it is now. Sure it was constant purple rain, but it was equitable to the amount of healing I did and comparable to the amount I would get on RDPS whether in group or out of group.

Personally, I think healers should have a little extra incentive in trinity games, but that is a different issue all together. People always seem to forget how reliant a healer is on literally everyone else when it comes to character advancement, especially when it comes to PvE requirements for RvR in most games. Solo leveling a healing class in many games is a bitch especially when you have brief and sporadic play times and cant get a consistent group together. This last paragraph is slightly off topic, so I will cease and desist on that rant.

Sounds like a jelly issue
It is FAR from "staying at place" and any(!) healer can't do this: u r actually must know what and how to do
And if a guy are worth of the reward - is there a reason to not give it to him?
Don't think so.

[Smellybelly]

I just feel i lack incentive to actually help anyone outside my group. I know locking the zone is a reward in itself, but tbh people are a bit too greedy, and yes by people i mean myself as well. I usually go all out when i see someone in trouble, i ress left right and center and i use my wp aoe out of group heal a lot, but all for nothing and i find i care less and less about others.

So i leave them to die, i might ress if i have time, but helping them kill someone is pointless with this system.
This all sounds very arrogant but its the system we have and it promotes this behaviour imo.

I dont mean for solo healers to run around like they did on live, that also promoted bad behaviour.
Give us incentive to help eachother! ^^

[Smellybelly]

Granted as a WP i MUST go up and hit something, somehow every now and then to build extra RF and thats fine but the lack of reward for doing as the WB leader tells me (stand back, safely and heal) yields me almost nothing.

Then your leader must be bad you should have people in team that will feed you kills when you are keeping them alive

On a serious note - I noticed that problem as well, as I was trying different classes. I hated the moment when I stumbled upon WH losing a fight against chosen and did my best healing him which ultimately led to chosen death just to know I got no reward for that. But obviously it's a problem for PUGs, healers in organised warbands should have no problem with that (but still, there is close to no reason to heal outside of your party/wb

hehe well if you have played healer classes then you know why by now, that you basically need to damage enemies to be viable for a few points here and there. Especially if your group isnt loaded with good dpsers.

[JUNDIE]

I tried to read through all these pages... (just wanted to give some feedback from a returning healer)

I played a zealot main on live. OOP healing was pretty insane, but heals > no heals. And healers cant solo... meaning that you are still dependent on helping another player. With the current meta of sitting at BOs and getting ticks, I find my zealot progression to be castrating. I can run off and help those I am not grouped with, but I get next to nothing from it. And I get 10x the renown rewards just sitting at the BO (I maybe got 20 renown from OOP healing and I get that every 5s tick hanging out with afkers). So I either sit at the BO or play something else. Going outside of PUGs is different. But I think asking every player to have dedicated groups can't really be expected. Because if that is the case, then OOP healing is a non-factor.

I have an alt now. And I have seen 5k renown off 1 solo kill. And over the past few days I looked at who is currently online, sorted by renown rank... and it seems like there are few if any high RR healers.

Did it need fixed.. meh. Are the changes too much... I think so. What can be done moving forward... there is never an easy option in games like this. But idk, revert all the way back and just cut into healing awards on a % basis. Even at 25% I would be tempted to try my zealot again. Or maybe add a buff to healing renown... something to make healing rewarding and give healers the option to play without a lease.

TL:DR......The class progression just doesn't seem responsive to effort anymore. If dps is supposed to kill and gets rewarded... having a healing class only get rewarded for healing a dps that "won" seems too complicated of a resolution. And a realm without healers isn't fun for anyone, is it?