Point of Career levels?

[Bloodlet]

I tend to agree with the general sentiment expressed, that too much has been done to FORCE players into a grind. I don't enjoy grinding myself and never did. The most appealing part of original WAR for me, coming from a crappy Korean grindfest, was the realization that some games DIDN'T force me to do unpaid work for the "right" to play the game. I remember feeling like a complete idiot for letting myself be deluded by a bunch of people who thought that grinding for hours made them pro in a 3 button game.

This is a game at the end of the day. Any elements of grind and progression are there to add to the experience - not to present a barrier of tedium to overcome to be allowed to PvP.

However, that said - internally, not everyone shares my opinion, especially the people responsible for the implementation of PvE and quests. I am going to ease leveling, but primarily through working with the quests and analysing the population in a given tier to modify XP gain rather than adding powerleveling, unless the database team are prepared to make something like mobs which actually require an attentive group to fight but provide good XP.

Maybe do something about the respawn rate too. See my signature for more.

[Darks63]

One thing you might want do AZ is review the elf pairing (both sides).The exp given from quests in that pairing is lower than the other two pairings by as much as 20 to 30 percent.

[lefze]

You seem to be missing that with an upgrade to 40 across the board, every single quest, mob, lairboss or whatever can also be scaled up. Tier one could either be left open with/without debolster. It would take work, yes, but with a unified level on all content, the potential to make every single PQ, lairboss, influence chapter and pretty much any other content relevant in the long run is there.

There really is no need to only see the issues, when there are several obviously solutions with potential benefits over the current implemetations. The only thing limiting the potential positive impacts of a change like this is the capacity of the team.

So people don't want to do quests when they actually give exp, but making them even less useful is somehow going to improve them? That's not really the point. The large part of the game you want to get rid of is leveling. Replacing it with a bunch of pointless crap no one will want to do, doesn't negate the fact that you cut a big chunk of the game off.

I don't love leveling, I like lower level PvP content, but it doesn't offend me that you are getting rid of quests. I don't have any love for quests. But what you don't seem to realize is that this is a fundamental change that will have bigger repercussions than just eliminating something you don't like.

Games that hemogonize everything, gear doesnt matter, level doesnt matter and all that other nonsense arent fun. No one like to level especially multiple times, but it being there adds something. Once you get rid of the level grind, why not get rid of the renown grind? Once you get rid of the renown grind, why not get rid of the gear grind?

Personally I would be a big fan of having an option to level much faster, but getting rid of leveling all together I THINK would be disasterous. It would be a different game without leveling. That is my opinion, I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned the content being scaled? The part about the work involved was not about leveling the world to 40, it was about rewards being remade to fit a game without levels. You could make something along the lines of quest sets for each tier of each pairing, more pq sets, better influnce rewards, or whatever else makes sense, again the possibilities for improvement are only limited by dev resources.

Gearing that could be introduced are more 2 piece sets, more proc weapons, more weapons with unique stats, more jewelry sets of any size, more jewels with unique stats, actual crafted gear, and it's not limited to gear either. Appearances, certain teased mounts, (relevant) crafting items, other useful/cosmetic stuff can be tied to this aswell.

If anything this could all allow for greater variety of gear, choice of progression method, build variety and a much broader game. And to be quite honest, this game has extremely litte variety in end game builds and gear setups, this would go a long way in fixing that if enough effort is being put in and it's being done with the right intentions.

Leveling to a set maxlevel before being able to start the real grind simply isn't a good use of the vast content this game has. Repurposing it is the only way I could see this game ever reaching a satisfactory state outside of pvp, while also improving the pvp in several ways.

Now of course, simply making the grind to 40 much faster is gonna be a great fix aswell, just thought I'd throw the possibilities out there, as arguments based on lowbie content are frequent in these threads.

[adamthelc]

I have played a lot of games that think they are very clever, that they can do better. So they try to change the genre based on their personal whims. No healers, no gear difference, no levels or whatever. They are ALL lacking. The paradigm exists for a reason. Especially when it comes to the subject we are talking about, I dont think radical changes are the way to go.


Its hard for me to take an argument seriously when grinding for levels is supposed to be pointless, but grinding for cosmetic gear is a reasonable idea.


Anyway we do have one common argument, they could make that event exp permanent. Everyone seemed to love it and the game was more active during it. The only question is, would activity pick up, but then eventually dip down lower than where it started.

[lefze]

I have played a lot of games that think they are very clever, that they can do better. So they try to change the genre based on their personal whims. No healers, no gear difference, no levels or whatever. They are ALL lacking. The paradigm exists for a reason. Especially when it comes to the subject we are talking about, I dont think radical changes are the way to go.


Its hard for me to take an argument seriously when grinding for levels is supposed to be pointless, but grinding for cosmetic gear is a reasonable idea.


Anyway we do have one common argument, they could make that event exp permanent. Everyone seemed to love it and the game was more active during it. The only question is, would activity pick up, but then eventually dip down lower than where it started.

Oh no, I'm not saying grinding levels is pointless. I'm saying the career levels are pointless, as we have another set of levels in the game anyways. And nowhere did I mention removing healers, gear differences or all levels. What I did mention, on the contrary, was that it is possible to broaden the gear difference without using ridiculous grinds or keeping two separate sets of levels in, which you somehow still ignore.

And no, I did not write that this should be a huge grind, for cosmetics. First of all there shouldn't even be a grind, it should be doing the content relevant to the build you want- as again, the possibilty to put in new, non-cosmetic gear to repurpose old, useless content is there.

But seriously, just read the post again, you missed like all of it.

[Fallenkezef]

The new patch makes this thread a tad obsolete.