Why 2h tanks are not considered "true" tanks?

[OldSparky]

Nerfing a CORE ABILITY for entire archetype just because they decided they wanted to go 2h for 2h-related utility most likely (BG on-demand KD, Crimson Death, IB's on-demand KD, Knights Arcing Swing w/tactic, Chosens, IBs, Knights and BGs 10s superpunt) should NEVER happen. If SnB isn't/wasn't in a good place or just appealing then why not buff SnB? Why not make 10s CD Superpunt on both setups? Why not give SnB some more utility to make SnB more appealing?

[Eathisword]

SnB tank HtL in front of keep door. THey have no CC that requires awareness, its all random on block KD, they don'T need to time punts and chose the direction of the punt, they don't need to assist on damage (heck, 99% of the time they probably don't even need to target anyone specific). They survive due to sheer stacking of defense.

2h smallscale tanks use their mastery choice to have synergy with their team with specific buff/debuff and on-demand CC. They control the fight with said ability and awareness, and are probably the single most important players in a group. They survive with anticipation, carefully chosen defensive resources and position.

And that is why the true tanks are the 2H ones. And that as of now, I do declare : there are no more real tanks in RoR

As an aside : do people really believe that a lot of 2H tank were using FO ? like really ?

[OldSparky]

SnB tank HtL in front of keep door. THey have no CC that requires awareness, its all random on block KD, they don'T need to time punts and chose the direction of the punt, they don't need to assist on damage (heck, 99% of the time they probably don't even need to target anyone specific). They survive due to sheer stacking of defense.

2h smallscale tanks use their mastery choice to have synergy with their team with specific buff/debuff and on-demand CC. They control the fight with said ability and awareness, and are probably the single most important players in a group. They survive with anticipation, carefully chosen defensive resources and position.

And that is why the true tanks are the 2H ones. And that as of now, I do declare : there are no more real tanks in RoR

As an aside : do people really believe that a lot of 2H tank were using FO ? like really ?

Can't say I disagree with that notion. I found out the hard way 2h tanks are way more... active.

I remember trying out FO only to realize it's not worth slotting in for 2 reasons I feel to still be true:
1. There are more useful tactics on each tank to choose from
2. The amount of lost armor doesn't justify the amount of increased damage

[footpatrol2]

Well there used to be a lot more the tanks were doing or could be doing infront of keep doors but the low amount of organization at the warband level doesn't really call for it anymore.

SnB tanks are for RvR unless the SnB provides utility needed for smaller scale. I didn't see a problem with this... ... ...

Btw did you guys know HTL and challenge shout abilities are limited to the AoE limit of 9 player's? Found that out the other day. Those abilities didn't use to be limited to the AoE limit on AoR.

[Onemantankwall]

Well there used to be a lot more the tanks were doing or could be doing infront of keep doors but the low amount of organization at the warband level doesn't really call for it anymore.

SnB tanks are for RvR unless the SnB provides utility needed for smaller scale. I didn't see a problem with this... ... ...

Btw did you guys know HTL and challenge shout abilities are limited to the AoE limit of 9 player's? Found that out the other day. Those abilities didn't use to be limited to the AoE limit on AoR.

Yyyyeeeaa aoe has been 9 capped for a while?

[footpatrol2]

challenge shout and HTL were not capped on AoR pretty sure through out it's entire life.

[xoonerfree]

Hold The Line a channel ability and basicly a warband mandatory for all tanks since it buffs everyones DODGE & DISRUPT by 15% if they are located behind the tank (which they in almost all cases are). The ability also stacks up to 3 times.

It is absolutely sublime when it comes to Warband fights. Not as useful when it comes to small scale.

That is only true for WB vs WB with heavy presence of ranged DPS
When its melee train with maras/choppas/slayers having shorter CD on Punt and on-demand CD is more important (just as it is in smallscale/6v6)

Hold the Line is only one of the tools available to tanks, others being Guard, Challenge, Taunt, Punts and more.

Saying that HtL defines the tank in its role is wrong because its only small part of the picture.

And when it comes to how important one or the other part of the kit is i think many people will agree that Guard is way more important and fundamental to Tank's role in this game than channeled 15% ranged attacks avoidance buff.

I fear they're going to let you and others blow off steam, convince you that what you are saying is important and matters, then proceed to let the guard nerf stand. Allowing upset people to be heard and the display of listening is often enough to resolve the issue, sadly.

I hope I'm wrong! I do.

[Martok]

Just play balanced tanks builds, than can switch 2H and SnB on the fly to get the more of their abilities.
Doing that in my KotBS currently and greatly enjoying it.

I'll see how much guard modification affect 2H gameplay from my point of view, but atm it's not really an issue since I'm still able to switch gear when needed...

Actually I experimented with this earlier tonight. I bought all the Genesis gear for S&B and respecced, then did half a dozen SC's or so. Mixed feelings. By the 4th SC I got a few kills and was holding my own. By carrying all the gear I need I can switch back and forth fairly quickly. May stick with it, don't know yet.

[anarchypark]

I myself a 2h defensive SM.
i guess we all know 2h is not always dps.
unfortunately most dps tanks are 2h and
guard change is aimed to dps tanks.
so every 2h are affected.
not a big deal, simple meta change
if 2h defensive tanks wanna act like victim, i can't stop.
though adapting would be more productive.

anyway, here's my theory why dps tanks are not true tank. ( even with challenge )
OP didn't distinguish 2h and dps. so i made it freely.

It's about playstyle and mindset.

small scale or big scale, it doesn't matter.
front line, rear line, vanguard, tank wall.
that's what real tanks do.

guard bot, punt bot are tiny part of it.
HtL or 10sec punt, that's only tools.

what's important:
stand still, draw line, set rally point, push through, block enemy charge.
to do that, you need to survive.
survivability is most important to be tank.

dps tanks are not fit for meat shield.
their playstyle and mindset are bigger problem than stats.
most dps tanks are dps who want to wear heavy armor.
sry 2h defensives have to suffer cuz of them.
actually most affected ones are guardee dps.

it's also perspective.
Is half cup almost full or almost empty?
dps tanks are almost not tank in my view.

[shaggyboomboom]

HTL

So a 2h tank that is using his challenge, guard, taunt, CC of all kind, who is specced defensively, who is geared defensively, is not a tank?

Meanwhile a SnB tank who doesn't use any of the skills above and is specced and geared offensively is a tank.