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Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

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Wam
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Posts: 657

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#11 » Thu May 21, 2020 10:08 pm

you cannot nerf order's best dps class (it props them up as a realm) or you will create massive ripple effects ... true it is better raw dmg, doesn't make sorcs bad though... you have to think big picture.

people who want to nerf classes are silly... you want them to buff the unloved classes, only when the other classes are more viable can you think of touching the poisoned chalice of BW if it even needs touching.

BW has counters...
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poisonedshotz
Posts: 27

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#12 » Thu May 21, 2020 10:21 pm

Wam wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:08 pm
you cannot nerf order's best dps class (it props them up as a realm) or you will create massive ripple effects ... true it is better raw dmg, doesn't make sorcs bad though... you have to think big picture.

people who want to nerf classes are silly... you want them to buff the unloved classes, only when the other classes are more viable can you think of touching the poisoned chalice of BW if it even needs touching.

BW has counters...
This makes no sense. If BW is propping up order, then it should be nerfed while the weaker order classes should be buffed. In fact, there's an active topic calling for SW buff, and it totally makes sense.

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Zaxxond
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Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#13 » Thu May 21, 2020 11:09 pm

poisonedshotz wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:21 pm
Wam wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:08 pm
you cannot nerf order's best dps class (it props them up as a realm) or you will create massive ripple effects ... true it is better raw dmg, doesn't make sorcs bad though... you have to think big picture.

people who want to nerf classes are silly... you want them to buff the unloved classes, only when the other classes are more viable can you think of touching the poisoned chalice of BW if it even needs touching.

BW has counters...
This makes no sense. If BW is propping up order, then it should be nerfed while the weaker order classes should be buffed. In fact, there's an active topic calling for SW buff, and it totally makes sense.

I have been calling for AoE BW nerfs for months. Devs will never do it. They know the AoE BW is the RVR hero of the realm and if they nerf (which they should) it will cause them them great pain and they will suffer from Order's collective tears on the forums. Also they will need to up tune the other order classes to make the Order realm competitive in RVR which will cause Destro to cry on forums.

Still... F AoE BW.
Last edited by Zaxxond on Fri May 22, 2020 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Grock
Posts: 601

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#14 » Thu May 21, 2020 11:15 pm

poisonedshotz wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:55 pm
Grock wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:25 pm
poisonedshotz wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:08 pm

Morale self pump for a tactic slot, tactics are not free just like infernal gift is not free.

Bright wizard also has fireball barrage which is an additional finisher for its ST spec, plus it even has AoE
I don't understand your point here. Self morale pump is one of the biggest things for BW in RvR.
Both classes have the same self morale pump. Not sure why you even brought it about since I am talking about class DIFFERENCES
oh wow i thought only bw had it :)
the way people always been complaining about "bw morale drop" made it sound like destro doensn't have equivalent :lol:
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poisonedshotz
Posts: 27

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#15 » Thu May 21, 2020 11:43 pm

Grock wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 11:15 pm
poisonedshotz wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:55 pm
Grock wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 9:25 pm

I don't understand your point here. Self morale pump is one of the biggest things for BW in RvR.
Both classes have the same self morale pump. Not sure why you even brought it about since I am talking about class DIFFERENCES
the way people always been complaining about "bw morale drop" made it sound like destro doensn't have equivalent :lol:
How is this relevant? If you are trying to make an argument use logic and not hearsay. When did I ever complain about bw morale drop? My post only focuses on the differences between the classes. If you don't have anything useful to add then go troll on another topic.

Starx
Posts: 279

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#16 » Fri May 22, 2020 12:07 am

Foofmonger wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:58 pm
The only thing that's bothered me since 2008 is whoever thought giving the highest RDPS class in the game a heal debuff and ranged knockdown had brain damage. I hope losing their job and watching the game they worked on fail and die brought some self awareness to them.

I don't really care anymore, and the devs have done some good balance work on this server, but the initial design of the BW was some overpowered garbage. Let's give damage and CC and a heal debuff all to the same class! God I remember how bad Engie's were at launch. I firmly believed that the Engie should have always had the heal debuff and the ranged KD and not the BW, but like I said, I don't really care these days. Just always seemed odd to me that on Order, they put the utility on the damage focused RDPS. I always liked the way they balanced the Sorc, and I've always found the Sorc to be much more balanced and thematic to what the role "should be" (a damage caster who is focused on damage and has low amounts of CC and utility), rather than the BW who was more (you get everything in one class!).

Magus/Engie should have had the lions share of CC for RDPS. Shoulda kept ranged heal debuffs to SW/SH and a single ranged Healer (AM/Sham) (for ranged heal debuffs). Would have given much more reasons to play these classes and given them a firmer identity when this game launched, instead of just sticking all the tools into the BW because someone on the Mythic dev team has a pyromaniac fetish.
That wasn't even the worst of it. BW used to be a walking nuclear bomb w/ scorched earth, which WAS mirrored to sorc but without all the wonderful double dipping mechanics and tactics of BW. Someone also found an AHK script that somehow made it so you can spam any no CD skill like 20-30 times a second and committed genicode General Grant style against destro for an afternoon before being banned and mythic fixing it.

As far as the person behind BW, ppl said it was some >girl class lead that couldn't play the game and begged for buffs, or in the same fashion as on this server we blame WL for being OP bc of devs people said BW was OP because it was mod andy's baby. Who knows?

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adamthelc
Posts: 827

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#17 » Fri May 22, 2020 12:27 am

So BW has more raw damage, but like someone already said sorcs aren't bad. I wouldn't say BWs are way better. A lot of the comparisons you make about sorc tactics make me think you don't play sorc that much or aren't as competent as you think you are if you do play one.

There was some truth to your post though about funnels. BWs are much better in that area. So in forts and things like them BWs do reign supreme, but sorcs still have it better in funnels than a lot of other classes.

I think the biggest difference is that virtually everything in a BWs mastery tree is pretty good or at least can be situationally. The exception being the sear heal tactic and you could make an argument for smoldering embers/draining burn. Whereas a sorc has a lot of lackluster things in their mastery trees.

I dont think sorc is in a bad spot and needs buffs, but it would be cool if some of the worst of their mastery tree was made more interesting. I also don't have a problem with BWs.

poisonedshotz
Posts: 27

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#18 » Fri May 22, 2020 1:42 am

adamthelc wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:27 am
So BW has more raw damage, but like someone already said sorcs aren't bad. I wouldn't say BWs are way better. A lot of the comparisons you make about sorc tactics make me think you don't play sorc that much or aren't as competent as you think you are if you do play one.

There was some truth to your post though about funnels. BWs are much better in that area. So in forts and things like them BWs do reign supreme, but sorcs still have it better in funnels than a lot of other classes.

I think the biggest difference is that virtually everything in a BWs mastery tree is pretty good or at least can be situationally. The exception being the sear heal tactic and you could make an argument for smoldering embers/draining burn. Whereas a sorc has a lot of lackluster things in their mastery trees.

I dont think sorc is in a bad spot and needs buffs, but it would be cool if some of the worst of their mastery tree was made more interesting. I also don't have a problem with BWs.
You might be gaslighting here a bit. I've looked at and experimented with all the tactics that might be useful for the sorc aoe spec, and they simply don't compare in numbers or mechanics.
What about BW getting armor while sorcs get resistance? What about BW getting self cleanse while sorc gets dumpster tier skill? The small imbalances that you don't address add up to BW being outright superior

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Wam
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Posts: 657

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#19 » Fri May 22, 2020 2:27 am

poisonedshotz wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:21 pm
Wam wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:08 pm
you cannot nerf order's best dps class (it props them up as a realm) or you will create massive ripple effects ... true it is better raw dmg, doesn't make sorcs bad though... you have to think big picture.

people who want to nerf classes are silly... you want them to buff the unloved classes, only when the other classes are more viable can you think of touching the poisoned chalice of BW if it even needs touching.

BW has counters...
This makes no sense. If BW is propping up order, then it should be nerfed while the weaker order classes should be buffed. In fact, there's an active topic calling for SW buff, and it totally makes sense.
re read what i wrote...

other classes need to be buffed first before you can think about nerfing this... like others have pointed out it is the realm hero of order, without it there would be extreme realm balance issues and order players would cry just like how you are crying about BW because you are directly comparing them in a narrow point of view without seeing destro collective strengths but not everything is mirrored

BW number 1 dps pick for orvr, Sorc is also a top pick for dps in orvr ...

Also like i pointed out BW already has alot of hard counters...
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adamthelc
Posts: 827

Re: Bright Wizards are way better than Sorcs in the main part of the game, large scale combat

Post#20 » Fri May 22, 2020 2:59 am

poisonedshotz wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:42 am
adamthelc wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 12:27 am
So BW has more raw damage, but like someone already said sorcs aren't bad. I wouldn't say BWs are way better. A lot of the comparisons you make about sorc tactics make me think you don't play sorc that much or aren't as competent as you think you are if you do play one.

There was some truth to your post though about funnels. BWs are much better in that area. So in forts and things like them BWs do reign supreme, but sorcs still have it better in funnels than a lot of other classes.

I think the biggest difference is that virtually everything in a BWs mastery tree is pretty good or at least can be situationally. The exception being the sear heal tactic and you could make an argument for smoldering embers/draining burn. Whereas a sorc has a lot of lackluster things in their mastery trees.

I dont think sorc is in a bad spot and needs buffs, but it would be cool if some of the worst of their mastery tree was made more interesting. I also don't have a problem with BWs.
You might be gaslighting here a bit. I've looked at and experimented with all the tactics that might be useful for the sorc aoe spec, and they simply don't compare in numbers or mechanics.
What about BW getting armor while sorcs get resistance? What about BW getting self cleanse while sorc gets dumpster tier skill? The small imbalances that you don't address add up to BW being outright superior
You can think what you want. BWs have some advantages over sorc. I definitely wasn't arguing against that. It's just not as dramatic as you are making it out to be. But I am just here to give my opinion on the subject, I am not trying to change your mind.

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