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Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

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TiberiusD
Posts: 344

Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#1 » Fri May 29, 2020 7:02 am

Hey!

As far as i've seen till now, the amount of hate against engineer in Ranked and City Sieges achieved the highest peak (from live and RoR). According to forum statements it's even worse than a magus.

What do you think it needs to change so that Engineer would find a spot in META? Or at least close to it. From my 27 months experience of engineer in this game i've seen that in terms of group utility is very useful and with a bit of toning and gear investment it can be very useful in both Rank and City.

Let's discuss about it.
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RuffRyder
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Re: Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#2 » Fri May 29, 2020 10:07 am

TiberiusD wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 7:02 am
Spoiler:
Hey!

As far as i've seen till now, the amount of hate against engineer in Ranked and City Sieges achieved the highest peak (from live and RoR). According to forum statements it's even worse than a magus.

What do you think it needs to change so that Engineer would find a spot in META? Or at least close to it. From my 27 months experience of engineer in this game i've seen that in terms of group utility is very useful and with a bit of toning and gear investment it can be very useful in both Rank and City.

Let's discuss about it.
It's tempting to answer, so I do, as we were guild members alongside each other for a long time. :)

I did every content on my Engineer at least a few times and over several years, so I understand pretty well what's the issue when talking about salt in Ranked Scenarios, lockout on meta warbands (except for a Magnet or Armor debuffer), a shitload of Engineers around (which isn't new and doesn't make it easier when the majority plays mediocre and this way forms the common picture of the whole class) in game in general and some people's PoV on the class and matter.

But actually, my opinion on this matter has a quite different approach: Why consider all the hate even relevant or reasonable at all?

It's not only Engineers, White Lions can tell stories about hate all day I assume, Magi can do the same, you will probably find examples for every class in the game and reasons to spread hate, if you want and care.

The game doesn't only exist around meta groups and warbands, people also don't want to see SWs in City, but a player should decide individually whether he/she wants to cater meta or just have fun... imagine playing a game for fun :roll:

Now there's the "it's a group game" argument. Yes, it is. But not every groups is even willing to do meta stuff, people are even doing PvE for fun and not for gear ;)
There's guilds forming for Roleplay, and actually there's only a handfull (if even) of guilds focusing on meta gameplay, still more than these are competitive enough in e.g. City.

Can we exspect to have every class to be viable in all game content? No (confirmed by staff).
Do you need it to enjoy the game? Decide yourself.

Back to Engineers: It's still imho one of the most versatile and fun classes in game and one of those with a skill ceiling that advocates handling the full arsenal of Engineer abilities to make a difference between the common player and pro Engineer. People playing with blinders won't understand that anyway, let them play inside their meta bubble, stop caring, have fun.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. (Mark Twain)

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Bosli
Posts: 70

Re: Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#3 » Fri May 29, 2020 10:54 am

TiberiusD wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 7:02 am
What do you think it needs to change so that Engineer would find a spot in META?
Apart from actual premade 6v6 Engies have a meta spot imo, same as Magus. As long as you stick to solo ranked and play your RDPS well (better than the enemy team RDPS) you can be fairly efficient.
For city, there might only be a slot of one Engie per meta warband, but that is the same for Magus, Blackguard, WE/WH. The problem for order is that you have way, way, way too many Engies, I would guess 5 to 10 times the amount of active Engie players than destro has Magus players.

There is another reason created by the game design that there are "too many" Engies, and that is the disparity of group size vs available classes. Groups are based of 6 players with 2 tanks, 2 dps, 2 healers - but you have twice as many dps classes than tanks and healers. Then you even have tanks and healers that play on a dps spec, while dps classes cannot spec another archetype, just "tanky" and "supporty". This means if you want to have an even and balanced spread of classes, you would need groups of 4 with 1 tank, 1 rdps, 1 mdps and 1 healer. With the addition of dps classes being overrepresented in pretty much every MMO increases the problem caused by this.

emiliorv
Posts: 508

Re: Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#4 » Fri May 29, 2020 11:23 am

Bosli wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 10:54 am
... is the disparity of group size vs available classes. Groups are based of 6 players with 2 tanks, 2 dps, 2 healers - but you have twice as many dps classes than tanks and healers...
Tanks/heals => 3 clases for 2 slots
dps => 6 classes for 2 slots

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M0rw47h
Posts: 589

Re: Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#5 » Fri May 29, 2020 11:32 am

In short:
  • Fixed magnet;
  • More AoE cleave, it's AoE meta;
  • Better morales, it's morale game;
  • Being less static and less turret dependent.
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Sengirv
Posts: 32

Re: Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#6 » Fri May 29, 2020 11:56 am

I never understood this. On LIVE, the same time when Guildwars 1 was popping, and I was Guild vs Guild all day W.H.O was also only a few months old and I saw how the terminology slowly came about. Yes DPS doesnt have healing or tanking. And this is why I brought up GW1. We called it Frontline, Backline, or Mid /Midliner. Last time I referred to this, some kids thought I was talking about a MOBA game -_-**
Bur DPS specs (especially here) are great for midlane or backline. Harassing healers with interrupts, disenchanting or stripping buffs, etc etc. Same for frontline support.
When we started calling them all DPS, yes thats part of your role. Buy new players dont know that. I ran one of the first Magnus's (ssesss) through the first citys on LIVE. Order hated my battery. But dang did you see ALOT of Blue Horrors around after about 3-4 months. Anyway...
Each class can bring their own spice to the pan. But Meta is exactly that. The flavor of the month. Get a Order player to run a WB or Party whos running a high spike damage build with a target caller and puller etc etc. and that would be the new norm. Or go in Gank tech. Just examples, Im not saying these would work. I just dont want any player to think their hard work on a character went to waste. Maybe its time for an Alt? PvE? New role? Same role new side? Its all up to you! And this is how Ive played W.H.o and D2 for 15+ years lol
Sry for the rant but Ive seen this topic alot. On every class. On every MMO lol.

Hermik
Posts: 4

Re: Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#7 » Fri May 29, 2020 12:36 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:32 am
In short:
  • Fixed magnet;
  • More AoE cleave, it's AoE meta;
  • Better morales, it's morale game;
  • Being less static and less turret dependent.
I can second all of this as an engi main :) Basically, being so dependent on your turret and being forced to waste one tactics slot on well-oiled machine is the real problem.

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Shadowgurke
Posts: 618

Re: Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#8 » Fri May 29, 2020 1:35 pm

Hermik wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:36 pm
M0rw47h wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:32 am
In short:
  • Fixed magnet;
  • More AoE cleave, it's AoE meta;
  • Better morales, it's morale game;
  • Being less static and less turret dependent.
I can second all of this as an engi main :) Basically, being so dependent on your turret and being forced to waste one tactics slot on well-oiled machine is the real problem.
This game does not need even more engi buffs, half of order already plays one.

The issue is simple: 2/2/2 is dominant and there are too many engis and not enough RDPS slots, and no amount of bitching and whining will fix you lots not playing healers and tanks
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Jahledan
Posts: 8

Re: Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#9 » Fri May 29, 2020 6:23 pm

Shadowgurke wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 1:35 pm
Hermik wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 12:36 pm
M0rw47h wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 11:32 am
In short:
  • Fixed magnet;
  • More AoE cleave, it's AoE meta;
  • Better morales, it's morale game;
  • Being less static and less turret dependent.
I can second all of this as an engi main :) Basically, being so dependent on your turret and being forced to waste one tactics slot on well-oiled machine is the real problem.
#!
The issue is simple: 2/2/2 is dominant and there are too many engis and not enough RDPS slots, and no amount of bitching and whining will fix you lots not playing healers and tanks
Here is the main problem. People trying to make others play what they want you to play. Only these type people are allowed to enjoy this Game. I can see why half the players ( up close to 3500+ daily for abit ) left with this attitude toward others. You suck any fun out of these players.

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kmark101
Posts: 328

Re: Fate of Engineer in City Sieges and Ranked Scenario

Post#10 » Fri May 29, 2020 6:42 pm

Jahledan wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 6:23 pm

Here is the main problem. People trying to make others play what they want you to play. Only these type people are allowed to enjoy this Game. I can see why half the players ( up close to 3500+ daily for abit ) left with this attitude toward others. You suck any fun out of these players.

Noone trying to make others play what they want... he simply stated that the 4562354623564256345632 engineers to the 1-2 dps spot is a bit of an overkill and creates many unhappy faces. It has nothing to do with attitude.
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