Fort Tracker One Week In

[diedrake]

Spoiler:

Haven't played destro in awhile

played destro today... attacked two forts and won two forts 100% success rate data can be spun very easily

Alot of players in general have learn to play issues, and also destro has psychological problem with forts and the need to be "carried" by premades ... too much self apathy and little belief unless they riding wave of momentum for clutch moments.

It comes down to clutch moments and s3 in particular... tanks should know how to tank, guard, push and m4 rotate... (do not stand in door way body blocking entire realm, you need to get through and harras and be the platform and solid foundation for your team) healers should know how to position and heal and when to use FM for superior healing when m4's run out... dps should know how to assist and build their gear/tactics and do actual damage and when and where to use their offensive morales and heal debuffs to create a kill zone for your faction.

You need to push in and clear space for the rest of your faction... and also be in sync with the rest of your faction. Too many times you have very bad back seat leaders try over talk those who know what they are doing, and sometimes trolls with bad countdowns and too many dry pushes against well organised defence... which wastes time and also makes some people give up after one push (lol and start the afk, which makes every other push afterwards a little harder) its very cluster**** ... also maybe too many people on alts trying to gear up instead of bring something more useful can be a issue of quality too.

As the attacker, you need to have precision and a plan... too many times this is lacking, if you do not have all the holy trinty tanks (m4s x 2) dps which do dmg and get kills and healers that are doing more than one group heal every 10 seconds ... this is more a issue for pugs than premades, but a premade cannot do all the work by themselves if there is equal amount of organised premades defending or more, the pugs need to carry their own weight more and this is the bigger issue on destro.

Destro try to stretch order and push multiple forts and sometimes can work but its very big gamble and some what defeatist and fails too often ... if you dominate you should push one zone and gurantee its lock with your strongest fighters .

Id like to also add... throwing, destro do this blatantly many times (hello defending third floor of fort and never pushing down once and let them passively take fort and have a city which they are more likely to win and farm order for easy gains) order very rarely throw if at all, its usually incompetence why they lose (if not lack of number)

Throwing, self pity and weird tactics giving up easy, gambling and failing is the biggest difference between factions (order used to get stomped at forts too and had alot of self pity and same with cities too and were told to "get gud")... forts design helps order usual rpds shine a bit more but if you get a proper melee train inside things even out pretty fast... the main fact is groups and quality is quite often poor and so rain of fire and engi and now sw too spam kills weak groups before they even push so cannot make any impact or difference (so the numbers advantage is lost, and as a attacker you have to do more work than defender) because they lack the holy trinty in their setup and some learn to play issues which make them fail in clutch moments. Pushing is very easy and simple, people over complicate things and don't utilize the basics of their class.

Also alot of puggies do not commit, when defenders are weak and ready to be over run, people wait in door way or outside for others to do the work before pushing in... its do or die... not standby on the sidelines giving defenders a breather and chance to fast rez and recover... you keep pressure on and break them.

Seems like a player issue more than balance or faction issue 160 people... you should have atleast 5 2-2-2 organised wb's or semi pug with pre morales. Then there will be smaller groups ganking or defending jail.

Forts are the worse part of game, but still they are part of the game.

Haven't played destro in awhile

played destro today... attacked two forts and won two forts 100% success rate data can be spun very easily

What you're telling me is some of the best guilds from order came over to hold the poor baby destro's hand just to prove that all we need is to "git gud". So you are taking highly geared order players who are try harding out of the equation, and you think that doesn't play into the mix? Basically you are admitting to helping throw those two forts in a very passive aggressive way. I guess that explains why our numbers shot up all of a sudden. The data that is being posted in this thread is not some hur hur we won two forts so we have 100% winrate. We are actually posting all of the data so that it can be viewed and interpreted by the community hopefully in a non-biased way to make the game better. Additionally, if you look at the data, attacking doesn't seem to be the problem as destro has a near 50% winrate when attacking, I'd consider that mostly balanced. I say mostly because the reason it's at 50% is we have to do dual forts to downsize order numbers to take forts in most cases. It's a pain in the ass but it's a strategy we've proven is working. Defending on the other hand is currently around 95% loss rate. Maybe you guys can all come hold our hands next time we're defending and show us how it's done too. Your experiment here proves nothing as you are effectively gimping the quality of order players to teach poor baby destro a lesson.

Actually it seems that what he did was prove to destro that the advice a lot of peeps are posting here proves to work, ie organize and communicate, along with bri ging properly spec'ed and geared char's to take forts. There is quite a few great ideas in this thread that can help destro out too, such as building a proper Alliance get rid of some of the solo/ 6 man guilds. Also have peeps on destro step up and start leading pug bands.

On order side in forts when those of us are online seems like mabe a max of 2 or even 3 organized wbs with 2 pug wb leaders. These wbs all talking together or at least listening to lead wb leader. Seen also if its only 1 organized and 1 pug band leader, it may be a rough fort take/ defence.

[Wam]

Spoiler:

Haven't played destro in awhile

played destro today... attacked two forts and won two forts 100% success rate data can be spun very easily

Alot of players in general have learn to play issues, and also destro has psychological problem with forts and the need to be "carried" by premades ... too much self apathy and little belief unless they riding wave of momentum for clutch moments.

It comes down to clutch moments and s3 in particular... tanks should know how to tank, guard, push and m4 rotate... (do not stand in door way body blocking entire realm, you need to get through and harras and be the platform and solid foundation for your team) healers should know how to position and heal and when to use FM for superior healing when m4's run out... dps should know how to assist and build their gear/tactics and do actual damage and when and where to use their offensive morales and heal debuffs to create a kill zone for your faction.

You need to push in and clear space for the rest of your faction... and also be in sync with the rest of your faction. Too many times you have very bad back seat leaders try over talk those who know what they are doing, and sometimes trolls with bad countdowns and too many dry pushes against well organised defence... which wastes time and also makes some people give up after one push (lol and start the afk, which makes every other push afterwards a little harder) its very cluster**** ... also maybe too many people on alts trying to gear up instead of bring something more useful can be a issue of quality too.

As the attacker, you need to have precision and a plan... too many times this is lacking, if you do not have all the holy trinty tanks (m4s x 2) dps which do dmg and get kills and healers that are doing more than one group heal every 10 seconds ... this is more a issue for pugs than premades, but a premade cannot do all the work by themselves if there is equal amount of organised premades defending or more, the pugs need to carry their own weight more and this is the bigger issue on destro.

Destro try to stretch order and push multiple forts and sometimes can work but its very big gamble and some what defeatist and fails too often ... if you dominate you should push one zone and gurantee its lock with your strongest fighters .

Id like to also add... throwing, destro do this blatantly many times (hello defending third floor of fort and never pushing down once and let them passively take fort and have a city which they are more likely to win and farm order for easy gains) order very rarely throw if at all, its usually incompetence why they lose (if not lack of number)

Throwing, self pity and weird tactics giving up easy, gambling and failing is the biggest difference between factions (order used to get stomped at forts too and had alot of self pity and same with cities too and were told to "get gud")... forts design helps order usual rpds shine a bit more but if you get a proper melee train inside things even out pretty fast... the main fact is groups and quality is quite often poor and so rain of fire and engi and now sw too spam kills weak groups before they even push so cannot make any impact or difference (so the numbers advantage is lost, and as a attacker you have to do more work than defender) because they lack the holy trinty in their setup and some learn to play issues which make them fail in clutch moments. Pushing is very easy and simple, people over complicate things and don't utilize the basics of their class.

Also alot of puggies do not commit, when defenders are weak and ready to be over run, people wait in door way or outside for others to do the work before pushing in... its do or die... not standby on the sidelines giving defenders a breather and chance to fast rez and recover... you keep pressure on and break them.

Seems like a player issue more than balance or faction issue 160 people... you should have atleast 5 2-2-2 organised wb's or semi pug with pre morales. Then there will be smaller groups ganking or defending jail.

Forts are the worse part of game, but still they are part of the game.

Haven't played destro in awhile

played destro today... attacked two forts and won two forts 100% success rate data can be spun very easily

What you're telling me is some of the best guilds from order came over to hold the poor baby destro's hand just to prove that all we need is to "git gud". So you are taking highly geared order players who are try harding out of the equation, and you think that doesn't play into the mix? Basically you are admitting to helping throw those two forts in a very passive aggressive way. I guess that explains why our numbers shot up all of a sudden. The data that is being posted in this thread is not some hur hur we won two forts so we have 100% winrate. We are actually posting all of the data so that it can be viewed and interpreted by the community hopefully in a non-biased way to make the game better. Additionally, if you look at the data, attacking doesn't seem to be the problem as destro has a near 50% winrate when attacking, I'd consider that mostly balanced. I say mostly because the reason it's at 50% is we have to do dual forts to downsize order numbers to take forts in most cases. It's a pain in the ass but it's a strategy we've proven is working. Defending on the other hand is currently around 95% loss rate. Maybe you guys can all come hold our hands next time we're defending and show us how it's done too. Your experiment here proves nothing as you are effectively gimping the quality of order players to teach poor baby destro a lesson.

Actually it seems that what he did was prove to destro that the advice a lot of peeps are posting here proves to work, ie organize and communicate, along with bri ging properly spec'ed and geared char's to take forts. There is quite a few great ideas in this thread that can help destro out too, such as building a proper Alliance get rid of some of the solo/ 6 man guilds. Also have peeps on destro step up and start leading pug bands.

On order side in forts when those of us are online seems like mabe a max of 2 or even 3 organized wbs with 2 pug wb leaders. These wbs all talking together or at least listening to lead wb leader. Seen also if its only 1 organized and 1 pug band leader, it may be a rough fort take/ defence.

if we brought lowbies and didn't communicate with other trusted warband (despite being usual enemies recently ) it would of been significantly harder taken more time with increase chance of failing... we had atleast 3 different people communicate with them relying info. we worked around and with each other. You just have to stack the deck in your favour and know the other side will be trying to do similar to prevent. Making sure both had enough contri for forts was key, and also cutting off supply lines at keeps to make them easier and less defended. Sometimes even stacking the deck might not be enough if you meet something similar but that is part of the game and what makes war war cannot be all defeatist about it.

Some people are just bitter and look for excuses because its the easy option to talk the talk, instead of put in the work.

[zij83]

Spoiler:

Haven't played destro in awhile

played destro today... attacked two forts and won two forts 100% success rate data can be spun very easily

Alot of players in general have learn to play issues, and also destro has psychological problem with forts and the need to be "carried" by premades ... too much self apathy and little belief unless they riding wave of momentum for clutch moments.

It comes down to clutch moments and s3 in particular... tanks should know how to tank, guard, push and m4 rotate... (do not stand in door way body blocking entire realm, you need to get through and harras and be the platform and solid foundation for your team) healers should know how to position and heal and when to use FM for superior healing when m4's run out... dps should know how to assist and build their gear/tactics and do actual damage and when and where to use their offensive morales and heal debuffs to create a kill zone for your faction.

You need to push in and clear space for the rest of your faction... and also be in sync with the rest of your faction. Too many times you have very bad back seat leaders try over talk those who know what they are doing, and sometimes trolls with bad countdowns and too many dry pushes against well organised defence... which wastes time and also makes some people give up after one push (lol and start the afk, which makes every other push afterwards a little harder) its very cluster**** ... also maybe too many people on alts trying to gear up instead of bring something more useful can be a issue of quality too.

As the attacker, you need to have precision and a plan... too many times this is lacking, if you do not have all the holy trinty tanks (m4s x 2) dps which do dmg and get kills and healers that are doing more than one group heal every 10 seconds ... this is more a issue for pugs than premades, but a premade cannot do all the work by themselves if there is equal amount of organised premades defending or more, the pugs need to carry their own weight more and this is the bigger issue on destro.

Destro try to stretch order and push multiple forts and sometimes can work but its very big gamble and some what defeatist and fails too often ... if you dominate you should push one zone and gurantee its lock with your strongest fighters .

Id like to also add... throwing, destro do this blatantly many times (hello defending third floor of fort and never pushing down once and let them passively take fort and have a city which they are more likely to win and farm order for easy gains) order very rarely throw if at all, its usually incompetence why they lose (if not lack of number)

Throwing, self pity and weird tactics giving up easy, gambling and failing is the biggest difference between factions (order used to get stomped at forts too and had alot of self pity and same with cities too and were told to "get gud")... forts design helps order usual rpds shine a bit more but if you get a proper melee train inside things even out pretty fast... the main fact is groups and quality is quite often poor and so rain of fire and engi and now sw too spam kills weak groups before they even push so cannot make any impact or difference (so the numbers advantage is lost, and as a attacker you have to do more work than defender) because they lack the holy trinty in their setup and some learn to play issues which make them fail in clutch moments. Pushing is very easy and simple, people over complicate things and don't utilize the basics of their class.

Also alot of puggies do not commit, when defenders are weak and ready to be over run, people wait in door way or outside for others to do the work before pushing in... its do or die... not standby on the sidelines giving defenders a breather and chance to fast rez and recover... you keep pressure on and break them.

Seems like a player issue more than balance or faction issue 160 people... you should have atleast 5 2-2-2 organised wb's or semi pug with pre morales. Then there will be smaller groups ganking or defending jail.

Forts are the worse part of game, but still they are part of the game.

Haven't played destro in awhile

played destro today... attacked two forts and won two forts 100% success rate data can be spun very easily

What you're telling me is some of the best guilds from order came over to hold the poor baby destro's hand just to prove that all we need is to "git gud". So you are taking highly geared order players who are try harding out of the equation, and you think that doesn't play into the mix? Basically you are admitting to helping throw those two forts in a very passive aggressive way. I guess that explains why our numbers shot up all of a sudden. The data that is being posted in this thread is not some hur hur we won two forts so we have 100% winrate. We are actually posting all of the data so that it can be viewed and interpreted by the community hopefully in a non-biased way to make the game better. Additionally, if you look at the data, attacking doesn't seem to be the problem as destro has a near 50% winrate when attacking, I'd consider that mostly balanced. I say mostly because the reason it's at 50% is we have to do dual forts to downsize order numbers to take forts in most cases. It's a pain in the ass but it's a strategy we've proven is working. Defending on the other hand is currently around 95% loss rate. Maybe you guys can all come hold our hands next time we're defending and show us how it's done too. Your experiment here proves nothing as you are effectively gimping the quality of order players to teach poor baby destro a lesson.

Actually it seems that what he did was prove to destro that the advice a lot of peeps are posting here proves to work, ie organize and communicate, along with bri ging properly spec'ed and geared char's to take forts. There is quite a few great ideas in this thread that can help destro out too, such as building a proper Alliance get rid of some of the solo/ 6 man guilds. Also have peeps on destro step up and start leading pug bands.

On order side in forts when those of us are online seems like mabe a max of 2 or even 3 organized wbs with 2 pug wb leaders. These wbs all talking together or at least listening to lead wb leader. Seen also if its only 1 organized and 1 pug band leader, it may be a rough fort take/ defence.

It doesn't prove anything. By having large numbers of Order players switch to destro to push zones the whole experiment was tainted. Furthermore I'm sure that 5 star Altdorf looked mighty tasty so I doubt there was very much resistance put up from your Order friends who knew what was going on. The argument here is that they are just soooo good that they came over and pushed two forts with their giant epeens in one afternoon when Destro had not even made it to a fort all week. Your argument is in bad faith and you know it.

[Hardkoar]

The issue here is not Organized vs Unorganized.

What you don't want to hear is the simple truth of class Vs class.
Order Pugs > Destro Pugs, it is not an L2P situation, the same very destro pugs apparently L2P very fast when they go back to order. You preach to people that they don't want to hear reason and yet you present yourself extremely biased and deaf.

The question you should ask yourself is : Do you even leave the warcamp without a full warband?

[zij83]

The issue here is not Organized vs Unorganized.

What you don't want to hear is the simple truth of class Vs class.
Order Pugs > Destro Pugs, it is not an L2P situation, the same very destro pugs apparently L2P very fast when they go back to order. You preach to people that they don't want to hear reason and yet you present yourself extremely biased and deaf.

The question you should ask yourself is : Do you even leave the warcamp without a full warband?

There have to be destro players left to organize there buddy. Population has been absolute garbage until yesterday afternoon when a bunch of Order decided to come have a visit. You're saying I'm biased and deaf when all I'm trying to do is get people to acknowledge there is a balance problem. This balance problem is hurting the game because a large number of destro players have decided to either take a break, leave the game all together, or go order. Morale on the destro side is at an all time low which makes organizing (which I do try to do) even harder. Numbers do not lie. 95% defense lose rate as simply being brushed off to "better organization please" is an argument from bad faith, and everyone on here making that argument knows it. I am not saying organization won't help, but it's not going to solve the problem and it's becoming increasingly difficult to do.

[Hardkoar]

The issue here is not Organized vs Unorganized.

What you don't want to hear is the simple truth of class Vs class.
Order Pugs > Destro Pugs, it is not an L2P situation, the same very destro pugs apparently L2P very fast when they go back to order. You preach to people that they don't want to hear reason and yet you present yourself extremely biased and deaf.

The question you should ask yourself is : Do you even leave the warcamp without a full warband?

There have to be destro players left to organize there buddy. Population has been absolute garbage until yesterday afternoon when a bunch of Order decided to come have a visit. You're saying I'm biased and deaf when all I'm trying to do is get people to acknowledge there is a balance problem. This balance problem is hurting the game because a large number of destro players have decided to either take a break, leave the game all together, or go order. Morale on the destro side is at an all time low which makes organizing (which I do try to do) even harder. Numbers do not lie. 95% defense lose rate as simply being brushed off to "better organization please" is an argument from bad faith, and everyone on here making that argument knows it. I am not saying organization won't help, but it's not going to solve the problem and it's becoming increasingly difficult to do.

I was talking to the TUP xrealmer . I'm agreeing with your view on the situation.

[zij83]

The issue here is not Organized vs Unorganized.

What you don't want to hear is the simple truth of class Vs class.
Order Pugs > Destro Pugs, it is not an L2P situation, the same very destro pugs apparently L2P very fast when they go back to order. You preach to people that they don't want to hear reason and yet you present yourself extremely biased and deaf.

The question you should ask yourself is : Do you even leave the warcamp without a full warband?

There have to be destro players left to organize there buddy. Population has been absolute garbage until yesterday afternoon when a bunch of Order decided to come have a visit. You're saying I'm biased and deaf when all I'm trying to do is get people to acknowledge there is a balance problem. This balance problem is hurting the game because a large number of destro players have decided to either take a break, leave the game all together, or go order. Morale on the destro side is at an all time low which makes organizing (which I do try to do) even harder. Numbers do not lie. 95% defense lose rate as simply being brushed off to "better organization please" is an argument from bad faith, and everyone on here making that argument knows it. I am not saying organization won't help, but it's not going to solve the problem and it's becoming increasingly difficult to do.

I was talking to the TUP xrealmer . I'm agreeing with your view on the situation.

Sorry about that lol

[Hardkoar]

Common chat destro Fort -
I mean, this is the end game content ppl are supposed to look forward to and instead are just dread in it every time.

[Cptkud]

Could also be that Destro are bored of being farmed in forts

This completely. I'm over losing all the time, never getting bags in forts, and the grind for gear has become a crawl. Why would I waste my time with this game if I'm not having fun? I've been playing other things. And when I DO play, I skip forts and only come on for cities. Waste of time otherwise.

[Gurf]

The first stage of Forts is basically orvr but with more even numbers, if you have a half decent warband you can get 100's of kills and tonnes of RR on that stage alone, even if you feel you have no chance on stage 2 I don't see why anyone would skip it, stage 1 doesn't particularly favour ranged.