Fort Tracking One Month In

[Naelar]

I love how out of 22 Maw destro didn't win any
And how Reik win rate is half compared to other forts when attacking.

Human/Chaos zones really seem in the right place. Working as intended confirmed

Hmmm... almost seems like Destro would be better off pushing dorf and elf. And yet we don't... I think I've figured out why Destro is the way it is!

[marafado]

I love how out of 22 Maw destro didn't win any
And how Reik win rate is half compared to other forts when attacking.

Human/Chaos zones really seem in the right place. Working as intended confirmed

Hmmm... almost seems like Destro would be better off pushing dorf and elf. And yet we don't... I think I've figured out why Destro is the way it is!

yep every one have figered out how destro and order is, but how about the "staff" ?!? any ideias why they want to re~invent the weel?

[Hardkoar]

L2P Destro

Exactly. Destro can only zerg. That's why you often lose in fort - cap on numbers. That's why you win more often when you attack than when you defend - defensive zerging isn't a thing.

If Destro was actually weaker than Order, you wouldn't make it to fort in the first place because you'd get creamed in oRvR, but as we can see from the statistics, Destro attacks forts more often than Order. Why? Because you can do your 100% AAO zerging in oRvR where there is no cap on player numbers. Then you go to fort and fall apart because you suddenly don't have 2x the toons that Order has anymore. That's the explanation for the data here.

tl;dr: l2p, numbers can only get you so far

You should have realized by now that destro needs in fact double the numbers to win in ORVR and it's not due to L2P issues, in fact those extra numbers are due to Xrealmers that play on both sides. They are either pro on both or suck on both (you pick, it's irrelevant.)
From personal experience I know good and bad players on both sides and I can tell you that balance is currently not in the game.

Here's a quick reality check:

Destro needs a coordinated WB with comms and high RR toons to beat an Order PUG / Bad leadership wb.
Destro Pug will never beat Order Pug due to the basic symmetry classes have in Order side that Destro doesn't. Not only the rdps is currently borderline op in favor of Order, but Destro highly lack any. Destro is forced then to focus their entire force on melee trains but guess what? There's a very small key factor missing on Destro side.. It's called slayer, with his undefeatable, undefendable, unmarriable, unchuggable, unparriable and unbalanceable aoe spam for 20 seconds. When order push the IWIN button on slayers they maw through Destro tanks, when Destro tries to do the same with their choppas / maras what they get is a LolBlocked, LolParried, LolAbsorbed situation.

If you can't understand these 2 basic concept of the current META balance and you think that the issue is simply L2P or 2-2-2, you have absolutely 0 knowledge on what it's truly going on in this game.

Can Destro run the A-Team squad, allign stars and win forts? Sure.
Does Order need any of this **** to turn off their monitor and get free invader? No. Not at all.
Don't even get me started on the situation with Engis camping every hill/wall/fort from the safety of their bunker farming entire factions with 3-5 turrets without even needing to be there. Could you please point me to the maguses / rsh that do the same with their pets? I guess they haven't L2P's yet on how to drop a turret in aggressive mode and go afk.

[Hardkoar]

So from this you can see that the attacks are very balanced, but in defenses Destro doesn't even bother to try to defend.

the message is clear, go away or rerol order.

But the message doesn't make sense because after every server restart the launcher advises you to roll Destro as it's in need of help .
Even the sodding launcher got the memo by now...

[Earthcake]

L2P Destro

Exactly. Destro can only zerg. That's why you often lose in fort - cap on numbers. That's why you win more often when you attack than when you defend - defensive zerging isn't a thing.

If Destro was actually weaker than Order, you wouldn't make it to fort in the first place because you'd get creamed in oRvR, but as we can see from the statistics, Destro attacks forts more often than Order. Why? Because you can do your 100% AAO zerging in oRvR where there is no cap on player numbers. Then you go to fort and fall apart because you suddenly don't have 2x the toons that Order has anymore. That's the explanation for the data here.

tl;dr: l2p, numbers can only get you so far

You should have realized by now that destro needs in fact double the numbers to win in ORVR and it's not due to L2P issues, in fact those extra numbers are due to Xrealmers that play on both sides. They are either pro on both or suck on both (you pick, it's irrelevant.)
From personal experience I know good and bad players on both sides and I can tell you that balance is currently not in the game.

Here's a quick reality check:

Destro needs a coordinated WB with comms and high RR toons to beat an Order PUG / Bad leadership wb.
Destro Pug will never beat Order Pug due to the basic symmetry classes have in Order side that Destro doesn't. Not only the rdps is currently borderline op in favor of Order, but Destro highly lack any. Destro is forced then to focus their entire force on melee trains but guess what? There's a very small key factor missing on Destro side.. It's called slayer, with his undefeatable, undefendable, unmarriable, unchuggable, unparriable and unbalanceable aoe spam for 20 seconds. When order push the IWIN button on slayers they maw through Destro tanks, when Destro tries to do the same with their choppas / maras what they get is a LolBlocked, LolParried, LolAbsorbed situation.

If you can't understand these 2 basic concept of the current META balance and you think that the issue is simply L2P or 2-2-2, you have absolutely 0 knowledge on what it's truly going on in this game.

Can Destro run the A-Team squad, allign stars and win forts? Sure.
Does Order need any of this **** to turn off their monitor and get free invader? No. Not at all.
Don't even get me started on the situation with Engis camping every hill/wall/fort from the safety of their bunker farming entire factions with 3-5 turrets without even needing to be there. Could you please point me to the maguses / rsh that do the same with their pets? I guess they haven't L2P's yet on how to drop a turret in aggressive mode and go afk.

Translating what u r saying for everybody :

-Slayers kill every tank/mdps destro has !
-Destro plays no rdps at all and only plays tank/mdps !
-Blame devs and ppl that don t understand it s all balance s fault !

P.S : I play tanks, both sides, and when destro i also hate slayers. Playing both sides made me realise slayer is **** strong cuz of melee numbers destro side. Play magus, thank me later /hug

[wonshot]

A quick personal opservation ive made since last two weeks of playing on destro,

Very rarely are there any driving organized force. Many times one pug leader steps up and tries to make a 2-2-2 warband but it has yet to be filled by 24players, several times have i seen this 2-2-2 warband only being attempted after first failed Stage3 push, as if this was a sudden suprice that the attackers needed to form 2-2-2 to withstand out outsustain the aoe presure from the order funnelheroes.

Also whenever i peak my head inside said funnel, and playing with char-names turned off and only showing guildnames it becomes pretty clear that order have several "fort focused" guilds who very often are well represented in the order fort-defences. Rescue team, fog of war, Smash etc. Depending on timezone this will swing up or down.

Destro succesful fort attacks seem to be pretty much sole relying on if FMJ has event (feel free to disagree or correct me on this one)

Now if i take my own opservations and match it with this stat data, it seems like order in general have no issue pushing the caldronfortress in the Elf pairring however Destro is almost never breaking Reikwald cauldronfort. This to me, shows that when Order realm get the momentum and ball rolling its very succesful, either because of people switch side and forfeit the defence-idea to secure a city inc. Or because destro doesnt have the same setup with funnel criticalmass maybe lack of rdps and too many mdps, or tanks on destro have mostly swapped to the idea of 2handers and no hold the line to cover the choppaball in a meatgrinder.

TUP has shown that if destro was more organized and having 1-2 warbands to vanguard then forts can be broken even with the mentioned order semi organized 6-12man stacks doing their thing. FMJ has done the same, and even provided an Altdorf city by securing two fort attacks the other night after the destro pugs had left stonewatch and FMJ swapped to this fort, after succesfully claiming the Elf fortress.

Overall I would say destro need to reequip the shields on their tanks, get into propper 2-2-2 warbands so you dont die to a single RoF, and for the love of Mork do not attack Reikwald randomly when other zones are open, this is the first step to breaking the realm momentum and morale.

[Parallels66]

So from this you can see that the attacks are very balanced, but in defenses Destro doesn't even bother to try to defend.

What data shows is that destro only have some chance to win when outnumber order, and still losses more than win. When destro have less numbers is close to imposible to win (94% winrate order).

Looks so funny when destro is stomped in forts means that "dont even bother to try to defend" but when order was being rolled in cities was a "huge imbalance problem" (when mostly those instances were filled with solopuggers facing proper 2-2-2 wbs).

94% winrate for order atacking and 74% winrate for order overall forts, and still the most played order RDPS got buffed last patch => the message is clear, go away or rerol order.

i mean tbh i went to 2 forts yesterday and 100 destro in fort and 0 in lords room/jail, no clue where they was but literally order walked into the lords room with 0 effort as literally not a single destro defending

[billyk]

Theres always one...both sides zerg. Get off your high and mighty horse. Play late night NA eastern prime time where order has 160 vs 40 destro. You biased simpletons can only ever see one side of the coin and think your side is perfect and does no harm...everything you accuse one realm of doing, guess what, the other realm does the exact same thing.

Want some cheese with that whine?
Fact is Destro has higher pop and stronger classes. This means Destro will zerg, and it usually works (see: Cities, oRvR, most SCs), unless you have a situation where zerging is neutralised: One example is forts with their pop cap. Another is scenarios like Thunder Mountain where zerging simply doesn't do you any favors. And in those situations, Order has the advantage because Order has to l2p thanks to lower pop and weaker classes. That's how it works.

[Aberation]

Theres always one...both sides zerg. Get off your high and mighty horse. Play late night NA eastern prime time where order has 160 vs 40 destro. You biased simpletons can only ever see one side of the coin and think your side is perfect and does no harm...everything you accuse one realm of doing, guess what, the other realm does the exact same thing.

Want some cheese with that whine?
Fact is Destro has higher pop and stronger classes. This means Destro will zerg, and it usually works (see: Cities, oRvR, most SCs), unless you have a situation where zerging is neutralised: One example is forts with their pop cap. Another is scenarios like Thunder Mountain where zerging simply doesn't do you any favors. And in those situations, Order has the advantage because Order has to l2p thanks to lower pop and weaker classes. That's how it works.

OMG I am sure we are not playing the same game

[billyk]

You should have realized by now that destro needs in fact double the numbers to win in ORVR and it's not due to L2P issues, in fact those extra numbers are due to Xrealmers that play on both sides. They are either pro on both or suck on both (you pick, it's irrelevant.)
From personal experience I know good and bad players on both sides and I can tell you that balance is currently not in the game.

Nope, equal numbers Destro always has the advantage because of stronger classes. In fact, xrealmers to Order are easily spotted because they try to zerg Destro-style and get torn apart like soft bread.

Destro needs a coordinated WB with comms and high RR toons to beat an Order PUG / Bad leadership wb.
Destro Pug will never beat Order Pug due to the basic symmetry classes have in Order side that Destro doesn't. Not only the rdps is currently borderline op in favor of Order, but Destro highly lack any. Destro is forced then to focus their entire force on melee trains but guess what?

This is easily debunked: If you were right, Order would win city all the time. Well?

There's a very small key factor missing on Destro side.. It's called slayer, with his undefeatable, undefendable, unmarriable, unchuggable, unparriable and unbalanceable aoe spam for 20 seconds. When order push the IWIN button on slayers they maw through Destro tanks, when Destro tries to do the same with their choppas / maras what they get is a LolBlocked, LolParried, LolAbsorbed situation.

Slayer is overrated and Rampage is only a problem because Destro classes have it easier with parry builds. Mirror Rampage for Chopper and nothing much would change because Order can't really do high parry builds anyway. Just use a different tank build, it's a non-issue. I kill much more people with my clunky DPS 2H SM than with my Slayer.
Also there aren't even that many Slayers on Order. It's not as if you're up against 10 at once all the time.

Can Destro run the A-Team squad, allign stars and win forts? Sure.
Does Order need any of this **** to turn off their monitor and get free invader? No. Not at all.
Don't even get me started on the situation with Engis camping every hill/wall/fort from the safety of their bunker farming entire factions with 3-5 turrets without even needing to be there. Could you please point me to the maguses / rsh that do the same with their pets? I guess they haven't L2P's yet on how to drop a turret in aggressive mode and go afk.

You are LITERALLY just mad because you can't r0xx0r everything anymore like you could in the beginning of 2020 when Destro was standing in Altdorf like 3x per day during EU time. Now that Order isn't totally gimp anymore, you whine. Bottom line: l2p.