BW damage feels underwhelming

[teiloh]

It's even more hilarious when OP has posted one picture where he gets hit for 1k from a spell that requires several seconds to build up to release it's burst and doesn't provide timestamps in the log, now as I'd that is not enough several BW players show up in the thread and state that BW has a higher burst, with SS being provided.

True, it's fail to post logs without timestamps. Apparently people don't know how to turn them on after many years. On a different note, albeit I agree with your post in general, I'd like to correct you on the build up times. The hits are per second from channel cast, so instant first hit and then like 3 more hits in 3 sec.
The thing is, the mitigation values alone tell anyone, apart from OP, that the dmg would be a lot lower with proper buffs. With toughness debuff added the OP would most likely get unmitigated dmg.

What I mean is that you need to build up Gork's to make it do spicy damage, which takes time.

Not really, you can just cast Mork spells on yourself before engaging. Just one single one and the channel will get damage boosted because it's an instant.

[Oglaf]

The class that sacrifices everything for high damage doesn't actually do that much damage compared to other classes in the current state of the game.
Just look at this numbers. It's really disheartening.
Even some shitty DPS shaman deals more damage with a press of 1 button. While being able to heal and having mountainloads of utility.

And yet you do better than Sorcs in comparison to AMs.

[Sulorie]

What I mean is that you need to build up Gork's to make it do spicy damage, which takes time.

One would pre-load some charges by selfhealing before engaging to get the dmg bonus on first hits.

[Zhentarim]

Its not that disheartening though because I dont see any timestamps, a healer couldve kept you up from that. Relife isnt some shitty dps shaman hes one of the few notable ones with a name I can remember. I still find sorcs more scary than dps shamans.

[Oglaf]

The class that sacrifices everything for high damage doesn't actually do that much damage compared to other classes in the current state of the game.
Just look at this numbers. It's really disheartening.
Even some shitty DPS shaman deals more damage with a press of 1 button. While being able to heal and having mountainloads of utility.

Relife is hardly a shitty dps shaman but I do understand where you are coming from.

If I understand this correctly what you are saying is :

The BW class is pretty much the only class on order (sorc for destro), that cannot play alone. It needs a pocket healer all the time to not kill itself.
Becuase of that it should have a much higher dps output. The issue rises when then you put them in a party and they become god like.

Sadly the only ''fix'' to this, would be to implement some sort of buff activation ''Sigmar's Blessing'' where the BW doesn't self destruct when playing solo and the buff disappears automatically when he joins a party.
Then again, I keep hearing this is not a game for solo players so none of the above truly matters.

There's also the case of AM and Shammys both being incredibly powerful in 1v1 situations and that's always seen as "fine" due to both sides being able to do it.

[wonshot]

Well after about ten pages, I think we found the real topic-question: "is backlash mechanic outdated or does it still serve its purpose?"

To that we probably need to look at the other ranged or burst career mechanics;

Engineer & magus have their damagebonus directly tied to their pet, not only do they need to have the pet alive, be near it, and wait for the stacks to tick up for getting the benefit. Some of their tactics even require them to have the pet and be near it, to get the full benefits.
Obv downside: if the pet dies you dont have a class mechanic.

WL & SH melee pets with a slight stance mechanic, but with the option of forfitting the class mechanic at the cost of a tactic slot (loner) to reap a 25%damage bonus and loose all bonuses tied to the pet. The upside is that they get burst on demand with no rampup and it gives these loner-builds tempo.

Slayer & Choppa, red rage reduses your defensive mitigation at the tradeoff of dealing increased damage. A good example of a classmechanic you can go up and down with based on how dangerous you live, some stay full red, some detaunt and go back down. Different playstyles and options. Risk and reward kinda ragemechanic.

Then we have BW & Sorc, massive bonus to critchance & critdamage, fairly low base ability damage in a wierd way of compensating the overtuned mechanic.
You dont control when you get hit by the backlack, yes you can lower the chance of it happening but you can still roll a luck or unlucky spree of getting hit several times in a row. Pure RNG.
Some mmos have this sort of luck dependant builds, usually the typical fire mage class where everything is tied to critting.
750damage is hurtful when you are solo, when you get extremely unlucky several times in arow, or when you are fresh of the buss welcome to t4-geared. For lategame a single hot will recover most of the combustion damage and the Backlash mechanic in late-game is not really something you pay attention to (the healers will catch me kinda mentality)

Now the Backlash mechanic does FEEL outdated, but for such a powerful class mechanic something with a downside needs to be attatched. Case closed?

[Bozzax]

I would say cloth, no charge, no snare break, no aoe detaunt, cold start delay on damage, "stationary aoe-ish" and backlash are more then enough to offset strong class mech.

Game of weakest link come to mind.

PS. Flee and a weak ass root in aoe land does not do much.

[normanis]

The class that sacrifices everything for high damage doesn't actually do that much damage compared to other classes in the current state of the game.
Just look at this numbers. It's really disheartening.
Even some shitty DPS shaman deals more damage with a press of 1 button. While being able to heal and having mountainloads of utility.

well shamans do really get buff like 3d dot on ror. also remowing cleanse winds and natural shaman enemy kobs triple enchanment remover - is removed. so they are **** tons and litle bit running around. offc ppl will call u troll, why should they nerf class what they play. when 2x am dps was in sc , u should hear that complain nerf am. in all chats on destro side. and in forums. adding kite tool to am = destro would never face am (if they dont zerg)= more tiers for tier god and his throne.
just play dps am and gather destro tiers.

[paperclipdog]

Let me help. BW bomb bands and BW top dps in cities exists because they are good at aoe damage. This isn't what this topic was lamenting, though admittedly it's badly and perhaps provocatively presented it's point. Intentionally perhaps, to gain attention? It was certainly successful if so.

Anyway, is about single how target damage for the BW being underwhelming if compared to that of AM/Sham or Engi/Magus. It can clearly contend with theirs, don't get me wrong - but they don't need to pay the hefty price of backlash for it and have other advantages and utilities that the BW does not have. You can disagree, but it is certainly not a ridiculous position to take.

Can't speak about dps AM/Shaman, but Engi/Magus do pay a very hefty price for their damage: Mobility and the ability to be completely shut down when you are at all focused.
On my Magus I get 11k-12k 3s timestamps.

It requires:

1. Be at maximum range to get the perfect Timestamp via Spell Travel time
2. Summon pet & get 8 stacks ~ 16s
3. Dot the Target = 3s
4. Cast Bolt of Change = 3s
5. Cast Mutating Blue Fire = 2s
6. Indigo Fire of Change for 2 Ticks during the Timestamp = 2s

Totaling 26 seconds and really only possible if you get to sit atop a wall. Timestamps of damage that I can somwhatrealistically get off in normal PvP situations would range between 5k-8k, all while still being extremely immobile and easier to shut down than BW/Sorc.

Tldr: Different classes different strengths.

Edit: What bombling said.

[Nishka]

The class that sacrifices everything for high damage doesn't actually do that much damage compared to other classes in the current state of the game.
Just look at this numbers. It's really disheartening.
Even some shitty DPS shaman deals more damage with a press of 1 button. While being able to heal and having mountainloads of utility.

And yet you do better than Sorcs in comparison to AMs.

I assume Sorcs suffer even more when it comes to facing dps ams, because they have no cleanse. But at the same time they have somewhat easier life, because order has less pulls. 1 less pull and WL pull being less effective and more telegraphed than Mara pull.