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Banjomissen
Posts: 128

Re: Better population balance.

Post#51 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:26 pm

So for more than 6 months ago Order had the pop advantage during Eu prime time? During all those sieges, did Order have issues getting into a city instance?

If they had the pop advantage I’m sure a lot of Order didn’t get an instance /s

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marafado
Posts: 120

Re: Better population balance.

Post#52 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:31 am

Opethian wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:00 pm
Are P&P and TUP flipping sides to 'help the underdog' though? When did either guild last flip to Order for any significant period of time, i.e. play on Order for months at a time with a frequent and pronounced presence in the lakes? Have they ever done that other than to prove a point that Order concerns about class balance aren't true by bringing some of the best players in the game over to Order to win a few city instances and therefore claim Order just needs to be better at the game?

I've been here for a year now and though there is an often touted narrative on here about the population ebbing and flowing, that, in reality, has not been true for the last year. We're heading to EU prime at the moment and the population in tier 2+ is 57 / 43 in favour of Destruction. This has been the case almost every day during prime time for the last year. Getting zerged in the lakes led people to switch sides, which made the imbalance greater, which then reduced the recruiting pool for remaining Order only guilds, which creates a negative feedback loop of new players coming into this competitive PvP game and not wanting to join the side getting stomped and outnumbered, further escalating the problem. Order's won how many cities recently? We overall won a single city attack out of all of them last week to my knowledge. Yes, we push to city, but we all know at this point that a significant amount of that is driven by x-realmers, who are Destruction mains, pushing to city and then logging onto their Destruction mains. Destruction is essentially playing with itself.

I can't understand how people can defend the population imbalance as being necessary. If city is the endgame it should be an event and not a twice daily occurrence which Order almost always loses. I fear if it continues in the present trajectory the population position will get worse due to the negative feedback loop and then ultimately Order will collapse. There is already a pronounced absence of players. We put out enough players this morning for 6 city instances. This time last year there would have been 20. I hope it doesn't happen but I am concerned it will and a game I really enjoy will end because I'll either have to join Destruction and play against virtually no competition or quit for lack of people to play with on Order.
"help the underdog'" is what the xrealm guilds post here on forum, what they do in game is another story :)
but i guess this are old news for most of the players!

but for some reason ror staff continues to put the ballance of the rvr in the hands of this ppl, they should have they reasons for sure... what do i know!

" Yes, we push to city, but we all know at this point that a significant amount of that is driven by x-realmers, who are Destruction mains, pushing to city and then logging onto their Destruction mains. Destruction is essentially playing with itself." ---> this is the picture of our current reward system working (maybe lockout on logout) whould change this "help the underdog'" playstyle...but again what do in know! ror staff for sure know what they are doing!

M0rw47h
Suspended
Posts: 898

Re: Better population balance.

Post#53 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:41 am

Order loses City Sieges because they don't organize, have bad population balance class wise and so on. After long break from doing Cities (don't need anything on order) I decided to be yet another soloQ player, so what I got:

Image

As you may guess, we faced 2/2/2 setup and suprisingly won, rather easily. However, point is, destro tried, we haven't.

Cabron101
Posts: 27

Re: Better population balance.

Post#54 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:27 pm

I was in that instance (on Order) and we all remarked that this was a freakish occurrence. While Destro had a good spread of Tanks/DPS/Healers I think it was still Pug v Pug.

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Ysaran
Posts: 1084

Re: Better population balance.

Post#55 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:54 pm

I was in that city too, with my AM. we were a 6man. I think that destru made a 2/2/2 wb out of /5 and thus they weren't really coordinated. I suppose they hoped that being 2/2/2 was enough to grant them the victory.
Honestly i don't see how you can hope the same while playing order, considering that Order is less populated (less ppl available to form balanced groups, lower number of potential groups) and has a skewed class distrubition.
While waiting in que for that city i remeber that both Gitbane and Dansaran were strugling to fill they tank's spot in /5 and that BT was strugling to fill his 12man too.
Honestly it's difficult to point out which is the surge of all the problem, which problems are symptoms and which problems are the real disease.
NOCTURNE
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and then WP, AM, IB, Slayer and SH

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horuson
Posts: 11

Re: Better population balance.

Post#56 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:13 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:41 am
Order loses City Sieges because they don't organize, have bad population balance class wise and so on. After long break from doing Cities (don't need anything on order) I decided to be yet another soloQ player, so what I got:

Image

As you may guess, we faced 2/2/2 setup and suprisingly won, rather easily. However, point is, destro tried, we haven't.
I was on destro side, we got a 2/2/2 but we were all solo queuers or duo/trio queuers, no 6 man or /5 wb, I guess matchmaking somewhat worked and set up a 2/2/2 because more destro players

Eltharion
Posts: 6

Re: Better population balance.

Post#57 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:41 pm

Imo that issue becouse order have classes which noone want to wb or party like sw, eng, wh. ;) Try find WB/party that classes, it is imposible. :roll:

M0rw47h
Suspended
Posts: 898

Re: Better population balance.

Post#58 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:46 pm

Eltharion wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:41 pm
Imo that issue becouse order have classes which noone want to wb or party like sw, eng, wh. ;) Try find WB/party that classes, it is imposible. :roll:
It's all about player beliefs, that classes aren't anyhow useful while reality shows its different.
Ywhi is leading lately on WH as far as I know and they [NGE] usualy pick engi for their WB, Zunig is leading on his SW.

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Fenris78
Posts: 250

Re: Better population balance.

Post#59 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:06 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:46 pm
Eltharion wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:41 pm
Imo that issue becouse order have classes which noone want to wb or party like sw, eng, wh. ;) Try find WB/party that classes, it is imposible. :roll:
It's all about player beliefs, that classes aren't anyhow useful while reality shows its different.
Ywhi is leading lately on WH as far as I know and they [NGE] usualy pick engi for their WB, Zunig is leading on his SW.
As you mention it, you usually need to lead on those "unwanted" classes to enter any org wb, or soloQ, or find a leader that actually knows the benefits for a wb.

For instance :
SW : pierce defenses + Leading shots + AoE = 15% parry/dodge/block strikethrough for whole wb + 8% crit for group.
Ing : Coordinated Fire = 15% more dmg on target to kill (a healer for instance), also AoE Pierce defenses too,
WH : Dragon gun + Init Debuff = +5 to +10% crit for whole wb. Dragon Gun + Heal debuff = Heal debuf on half/all the healers at once.
Also to mention AoE Moral drain + group pump from Dragon Gun, every 10s (5s with WW), or Barrage from SW (spammable with WW), or the WH's AoE debuffs armor from either Burn Armor or Wit proc + Dragon Gun (800-990 debuff is about 18-22% more dmg for whole wb on targets).

You just have to make sure those specs are played for the city, and used wisely (for instance pairing those with a WW SM for max efficiency).
I truly think those combos are nasty and WILL do the difference in City fight.

Sadly, between leaders that underestimate that, and players that are not correctly specced for cities, there is still much way to go before being widely adopted as standard, not to mention being even seriously considered...

Still, those combos only require 1-2 of theses classes to be effective, that's why unless being gifted with more city-friendly options, the most Order played classes will still not find many spots in cities... And that's the issue to me.

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Charon
Posts: 291

Re: Better population balance.

Post#60 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:30 pm

M0rw47h wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:41 am
Order loses City Sieges because they don't organize, have bad population balance class wise and so on. After long break from doing Cities (don't need anything on order) I decided to be yet another soloQ player, so what I got:

Image

As you may guess, we faced 2/2/2 setup and suprisingly won, rather easily. However, point is, destro tried, we haven't.
This wp which you marked its mine ...and i still don't believe we won that city with pug and maybe 2x6 mans .... I don't want to assess a quality of opponents, but it seems that more organised destro now rush to order side because boredom...and its what left at destro. And that is not connected to realms balance wise. Just new xrealm period just started. Soon my guild will have to roll destro to have opportunity to fight with anyone in our EU events time.... outside maybe FMJ.

AND maybe its time to put the f**** basic requirement to que for city minimum for 6 man..I asked about that long ago ..TUP members did the same. So maybe now, when destro pugs have access to the city, some dev will respond. #frustration;/

Btw this city just remind me how power full are cd reducers vs any dot dmg.... poor maguses ..or whatever i was cleansing
Last edited by Charon on Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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