Defensive tanks

[detrap]

Well considering SM is by far considered the easiest tank to kill any chance of some of my or others suggestions viewtopic.php?f=15&t=43428 for how to make their defensive tactics more useful being adopted (shameless plug incoming)?

They can be the hardest 2h tank to kill, and they can have 60% block high parry and 95% disrupt, they clearly aren't the easiest tank to kill. With crushing advance up, you rotate with the 700 hp bubble > sudden shift > htl and you also have vauls buffer another 500+ hp shield proccing up to 3 times in that 10 second duration before your stance resets. People probably build them wrong, 99.9% of 2H are of course not defensively built, but can have parry up to 100%, disrupt above 90% and dodge more than 70%.

The bubbles get deleted super fast in Orvr WBs. Without the bubbles, their defense is like paper. I feel super jealous at times watching Kotbs and IB’s tank like super heroes.

not when you have 900-1k toughness, and the bubbles proc a lot more than other order tanks

[emiliorv]

Well considering SM is by far considered the easiest tank to kill any chance of some of my or others suggestions viewtopic.php?f=15&t=43428 for how to make their defensive tactics more useful being adopted (shameless plug incoming)?

They can be the hardest 2h tank to kill, and they can have 60% block high parry and 95% disrupt, they clearly aren't the easiest tank to kill. With crushing advance up, you rotate with the 700 hp bubble > sudden shift > htl and you also have vauls buffer another 500+ hp shield proccing up to 3 times in that 10 second duration before your stance resets. People probably build them wrong, 99.9% of 2H are of course not defensively built, but can have parry up to 100%, disrupt above 90% and dodge more than 70%.

I wish i could get 60% block 100% parry and 95% disrupt. lol no idea what butt you pulled that out of.

100% parry ?? 95% disrupt?? where you got that numbers?? Im really curious...

[detrap]

The question to ask with IBs is really whether the optimal Warband build really affords any of the extra tanky abilities?

Lets assume a 70+ IB w/o the extra 2 points from full Sov.

RoR.builders - Ironbreaker

If you bring Ancestor's Fury, Oathbound, Runic Shield, Punishing Knock, Earthshatter, and Told Ya So, then you cannot afford GnM or Shield Mastery and you have 1 tactic slot open assuming that you consider Toughness tactic to be mandatory.

You could use that tactic for Armor (Mind that you have pots and self-buff), the other tanky one you could use is Seasoned veteran.

The problem is that quite a few of these are "selfish" choices meaning that Ancestor's Fury, Runic Shield, earthshatter, and PK are all meta because they actually benefit the group's offense/damage mitigation in achieving kills.

TLDR: You can build a very tank tank IB that will be the last thing to die for sure but at what cost? My issue is that Borc, Chosen/Knight, and BG all bring the tanky stuff in combination with benefits to the grp more easily than the tradeoff IB is forced to make.

Edit: Come to think of it, given IB's lack of block buffs, the nerf to parrying guard damage probably hit them the hardest since high parry was the easiest thing to stack so really IB is probably over represented in these answers.

Of course you will be squishier when you don't spec all the way up your tank tree and a knight does.

[abezverkhiy]

They can be the hardest 2h tank to kill, and they can have 60% block high parry and 95% disrupt, they clearly aren't the easiest tank to kill. With crushing advance up, you rotate with the 700 hp bubble > sudden shift > htl and you also have vauls buffer another 500+ hp shield proccing up to 3 times in that 10 second duration before your stance resets. People probably build them wrong, 99.9% of 2H are of course not defensively built, but can have parry up to 100%, disrupt above 90% and dodge more than 70%.

I wish i could get 60% block 100% parry and 95% disrupt. lol no idea what butt you pulled that out of.

100% parry ?? 95% disrupt?? where you got that numbers?? Im really curious...

Well it is achievable but what's the point? I think he thought of WODS 50% + GW mastery 5% + Perfect Defences 10% + Eagle's Flight 25% + Reflexes 18% = 108% plus X% from gear and WS. Cannot build your playstyle with the idea of doing WODS all the time. Plus other variables are instable.

[detrap]

I wish i could get 60% block 100% parry and 95% disrupt. lol no idea what butt you pulled that out of.

100% parry ?? 95% disrupt?? where you got that numbers?? Im really curious...

Well it is achievable but what's the point? I think he thought of WODS 50% + GW mastery 5% + Perfect Defences 10% + Eagle's Flight 25% + Reflexes 18% = 108% plus X% from gear and WS. Cannot build your playstyle with the idea of doing WODS all the time. Plus other variables are instable.

It's fun to face tank warbands and avoid more guard damage than you normally would with a lot less block. A wall of 2h SM's would be hard to penetrate without cc, but you are lucky to see a 2h SM who is not dps specc'd.

[emiliorv]

100% parry ?? 95% disrupt?? where you got that numbers?? Im really curious...

Well it is achievable but what's the point? I think he thought of WODS 50% + GW mastery 5% + Perfect Defences 10% + Eagle's Flight 25% + Reflexes 18% = 108% plus X% from gear and WS. Cannot build your playstyle with the idea of doing WODS all the time. Plus other variables are instable.

It's fun to face tank warbands and avoid more guard damage than you normally would with a lot less block. A wall of 2h SM's would be hard to penetrate without cc, but you are lucky to see a 2h SM who is not dps specc'd.

Well, if you have a few slayers could shiit on that 100% parry...even 100% parry+100% block => funny eh

[detrap]

Well it is achievable but what's the point? I think he thought of WODS 50% + GW mastery 5% + Perfect Defences 10% + Eagle's Flight 25% + Reflexes 18% = 108% plus X% from gear and WS. Cannot build your playstyle with the idea of doing WODS all the time. Plus other variables are instable.

It's fun to face tank warbands and avoid more guard damage than you normally would with a lot less block. A wall of 2h SM's would be hard to penetrate without cc, but you are lucky to see a 2h SM who is not dps specc'd.

Well, if you have a few slayers could shiit on that 100% parry...even 100% parry+100% block => funny eh

Would be hard for any amount of Slayers to friendly fire on a SM I think...Even if they could SM's can shatter the rampage buff

[emiliorv]

It's fun to face tank warbands and avoid more guard damage than you normally would with a lot less block. A wall of 2h SM's would be hard to penetrate without cc, but you are lucky to see a 2h SM who is not dps specc'd.

Well, if you have a few slayers could shiit on that 100% parry...even 100% parry+100% block => funny eh

Would be hard for any amount of Slayers to friendly fire on a SM I think...Even if they could SM's can shatter the rampage buff

well, looking how order struggle to shatter Chop fasta! i really doubt that could shatter rampage properly...

[Aethilmar]

I wish i could get 60% block 100% parry and 95% disrupt. lol no idea what butt you pulled that out of.

100% parry ?? 95% disrupt?? where you got that numbers?? Im really curious...

Well it is achievable but what's the point? I think he thought of WODS 50% + GW mastery 5% + Perfect Defences 10% + Eagle's Flight 25% + Reflexes 18% = 108% plus X% from gear and WS. Cannot build your playstyle with the idea of doing WODS all the time. Plus other variables are instable.

Detrap (and others) can theorycraft all they want but the reality is it doesn't work out in practice. As you note here and as has been called out elsewhere, the things that theoretically get you to these super numbers make the SM completely useless even if they can get there. The SM has to "attack" for maximum effect even as a defensive tank. The other tanks either get defensive/utility bonuses by merely slotting stuff (e.g. Gilded Shield for Knight) or by being hit (eg Grudge/Hatred mechanics interplay).

And I'm okay with the "must attack" part of SM. It is part of the appeal of the class. But there should be a commensurate reward for following the mechanic. And there isn't one. It actually makes them weaker than the other tanks to follow the mechanic and it shows in the poll results.

[anarchypark]

WoDS and Eagle's Flight doesn't stack.
guard swap, cahllenge, bodyblocking with collision, throw yourself b4 enemy to save VIP etc
those are more important tank skills than stats.
what use of those numbers when u don't guard. or guard wrong targets.