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Punishment of the Pugs

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Topdude
Posts: 54

Punishment of the Pugs

Post#1 » Sun May 02, 2021 6:22 pm

GamesBond wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:27 pm


The game rewards you for teaming up, it's advised everywhere and in any game mode. It also punishes you if you solo play and that's how it is, it's just how a PvP game is. Weekend SCs will remain open to everyone. Now whether you want to team up and increase your winning chance and rewards, or queue solo and get defeated often due to lack of organization, is up to you. The game itself and the social programs have facilitated communication and grouping for everyone, there's no way you'd miss a group/guild if you actually wanted to join.
I'm afraid I have to disagree. AOR never had the punishment toward solo/Pug players that the Devs of RoR are implementing.
Back in the day of "live" and back in the earlier years of RoR, pugs were the much needed "filler" of a realms' success. These days, as server pop has dwindled from it's highs of +2000 I see more and more players that prefer not to join groups for whatever reason. The Dev team should really take this into consideration and realize that the game needs to be enjoyable to any and all that take the time to log on.
During AOR the "punishment" for running solo was that you didn't get the renown pops from WB heals and kills and you stood the chance of being flattened by premades, but it seems that there is actually a depreciated renown gain for solo players in ROR. Zone flips are less if solo, or in a small group (I regularly run in a group of 2). Kills have been rewarded with 1 RP, it all makes it less rewarding to even log on and play.
Last night, at about 11pm PST there were over 120 order on and no public WBs. Some tried to gather a WB only to have it half full, meaning a large percentage of players at the time didn't want to group up. You can't blame players that don't want to join a WB that is fail or when pop percentage is such that you're only going to run into a zerg that's going to mow you down. But we still need these players in game to make a "healthy" well rounded community for all players.
I have always stood up for the Pugs because I've realized this is where new players exist. Those that are new to their toons, unsure of how to spec, what rotations to have and with little knowledge of how their class fits into the society of playing on a team, they need to be able to participate, enjoy and receive enough rewards to keep their interest in the game. If not, population dwindles and sooner or later the game will be nothing but elites gathered together in a zone bashing heads until one dominates.
I recently got a friend, a player of AOR for over 5 years, to try RoR. He enjoyed it, UNTIL he hit lvl 16 and was thrust into battles with geared RR80 in uber-organized warbands. He tried to join only to be auto-band kicked because he was too low level (yes, even with his bolster) or because his DPS wasn't needed. I've experienced the same and it's really divisive, makes the game intolerable and creates the thought in the player that "I'm just not wanted". So a pug is born. Then there's the nasty habit of calling out players by name and trashing them because they aren't the best player. All of this only creates feelings of resentment, "why am I even trying" and performance anxiety, it destroys the game for them.
I could go on but I'll just leave it right here and wait for hopefully a productive conversation to commence. Or, I'll just watch as I'm trashed for expressing my thoughts and watch the game die just a little bit more.

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Sulorie
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#2 » Sun May 02, 2021 6:32 pm

When you get 1 rp for killing as a group of 2, then you should change zone, as it appears your side is getting hard and you kill people, who were killing not long ago. Go in a zone, where your side has aao and gank enemies, then you get good renown.
Dying is no option.

Topdude
Posts: 54

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#3 » Sun May 02, 2021 6:55 pm

These are in zones where I have aao.

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reynold
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#4 » Sun May 02, 2021 6:56 pm

You make alot of good points, but i dont know if it destroys the game for anyone. Ive been kicked from wbs before, not being disruptive or anything to cause it either. I just assume the leader wants some other class in the wb. Theres always the option to make your own group and lead
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wargrimnir
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#5 » Sun May 02, 2021 7:14 pm

You'd get more done if you applied your energy towards organizing players in need of a guild. Pugs are not the answer, they're a problem to be fixed.
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Topdude
Posts: 54

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#6 » Sun May 02, 2021 7:24 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:14 pm
You'd get more done if you applied your energy towards organizing players in need of a guild. Pugs are not the answer, they're a problem to be fixed.
I am considering dedicating some of the limited time I have to play into forming and running a guild. However I don't understand your unsubstantiated statement alluding that Pugs are a problem. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on that.

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wargrimnir
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#7 » Sun May 02, 2021 7:39 pm

Topdude wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:24 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:14 pm
You'd get more done if you applied your energy towards organizing players in need of a guild. Pugs are not the answer, they're a problem to be fixed.
I am considering dedicating some of the limited time I have to play into forming and running a guild. However I don't understand your unsubstantiated statement alluding that Pugs are a problem. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on that.
What thoughts? Pugs are a default state waiting to be molded into something useful. All the paths lead towards joining a guild and making friends. Playing solo should only really be embraced by people who have been around for a long time and are looking for that sort of challenge. The sooner pugs realize they need to be socially active in a PvP-based MMO, the faster they can get over feeling like they're being punished.

I don't really know what you're advocating for, it seems like you just want to harass staff to do something about your grievance. You haven't pointed out anything that ROR needs to fix. Just whatever this statement is.
The Dev team should really take this into consideration and realize that the game needs to be enjoyable to any and all that take the time to log on.
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Topdude
Posts: 54

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#8 » Sun May 02, 2021 8:16 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:39 pm
I don't really know what you're advocating for, it seems like you just want to harass staff to do something about your grievance. You haven't pointed out anything that ROR needs to fix. Just whatever this statement is.
The Dev team should really take this into consideration and realize that the game needs to be enjoyable to any and all that take the time to log on.
I'm advocating for equality between those that play in warbands with those that play in small groups or solo. It was the feeling we've gotten from rewards in the game and GamesBond's statement that have made me realize that solo players are punished for how they choose to play. Given that calculations toward contribution and how that affects renown rewards in any given zone aren't spelled out in detail anywhere I cannot provide detailed specifics and am left to perception.
What I do know, after playing since two weeks after EA killed AoR and then relishing in joy after Max and the rest of the Dev team took it over is that many players from those times have gone. That the mentality of those playing has changed from supporting the server and players with encouragement and suggestions into, (not always but many times) WBs that roam zones looking for the skirmish, ignoring the zone mechanics, a shift from RvR and realm pride to how big is my sword mentality.
Now, GamesBond is the one that came out and said that solo players are punished. IF I were to suggest to the Devs anything to ponder it would be to think of how to get people that have never played or have tried RoR but have stopped to pick up the mouse, log on and give it another try. You don't need to advertise, word of mouth is strong, you just need to try to provide an experience that is rewarding and makes the player feel like their getting somewhere. If any member of the dev team would like to honestly talk specifics of mechanics I would try my best to discuss with them. But that would require discussing information that seems to be kept under lock and key. But hey, you know my name and you can PM me.
And Wargrimnir, I am NOT harassing the devs, nor am I trying to express any anger or displeasure with any of you. I am grateful that this server exists and am happy that I can log on and still taste a simulation of what was once WAR live. I'm only relating my experience, perceptions and opinions of people I have seen come to this game only to leave. I hope that the server stays up for years to come, that the devs continue with their interest and commitment to advancing the game and that people continue to help the community grow.

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wargrimnir
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#9 » Sun May 02, 2021 8:27 pm

This is another non-statement that doesn't have any example of a system that you have an issue with. You're mad at an idea, a notion, a concept. What actual coded function exists that is holding back players from participating on the server? How would you change it?

That's how you make a constructive statement rather than an inflammatory post that serves nothing but harassing staff with vague accusations. Your initial statement, and followup clarification of your initial statement are equally hollow and serve only to paint staff and dev decisions as aggressively hostile towards pugs with no examples of what those systems actually are.
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Martok
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#10 » Sun May 02, 2021 8:42 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:14 pm
You'd get more done if you applied your energy towards organizing players in need of a guild. Pugs are not the answer, they're a problem to be fixed.

Ay yi yi...

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