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Punishment of the Pugs

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mogt
Posts: 402

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#11 » Sun May 02, 2021 8:47 pm

wargrimmir you are right.

in a pvp based mmo, you need social contacts that is the core from a mmo, if you would play solo, then is a mmo based game, the wrong game, yeah i know it is hard, but that is the truth.

you can be a part from a social playerbase

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arorwne
Posts: 185

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#12 » Sun May 02, 2021 9:03 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:14 pm
You'd get more done if you applied your energy towards organizing players in need of a guild. Pugs are not the answer, they're a problem to be fixed.
Let me clarify this:

Solo players and PUGs are a problem? (do you even hear yourself?)

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wargrimnir
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#13 » Sun May 02, 2021 9:19 pm

arorwne wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:03 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:14 pm
You'd get more done if you applied your energy towards organizing players in need of a guild. Pugs are not the answer, they're a problem to be fixed.
Let me clarify this:

Solo players and PUGs are a problem? (do you even hear yourself?)
What are you clarifying?
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[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

BeardedDooD
Posts: 15

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#14 » Sun May 02, 2021 9:21 pm

arorwne wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:03 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:14 pm
You'd get more done if you applied your energy towards organizing players in need of a guild. Pugs are not the answer, they're a problem to be fixed.
Let me clarify this:

Solo players and PUGs are a problem? (do you even hear yourself?)
I heard something like that once, at history lesson. xD
The idea that pugs and solos are a problem ..that need to be fixed, its kinda remind me of something. But again, what u guys expected? This is the way how this server worked before, work now and will work for next few years. They are not getting any money from this project, so 20-50 or more topics about same thing wont change anything.

Topdude
Posts: 54

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#15 » Sun May 02, 2021 9:30 pm

Let me see if I can clear your mind of my position while I ponder why you are so defensive and try to instigate a negative discussion with me.
wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:27 pm
This is another non-statement that doesn't have any example of a system that you have an issue with. You're mad at an idea, a notion, a concept. What actual coded function exists that is holding back players from participating on the server? How would you change it?
Topdude wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:16 pm

Given that calculations toward contribution and how that affects renown rewards in any given zone aren't spelled out in detail anywhere I cannot provide detailed specifics and am left to perception.
If any member of the dev team would like to honestly talk specifics of mechanics I would try my best to discuss with them. But that would require discussing information that seems to be kept under lock and key. But hey, you know my name and you can PM me.

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wargrimnir
Head Game Master
Posts: 7368
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#16 » Sun May 02, 2021 9:42 pm

Topdude wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:30 pm
Let me see if I can clear your mind of my position while I ponder why you are so defensive and try to instigate a negative discussion with me.
wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:27 pm
This is another non-statement that doesn't have any example of a system that you have an issue with. You're mad at an idea, a notion, a concept. What actual coded function exists that is holding back players from participating on the server? How would you change it?
Topdude wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:16 pm

Given that calculations toward contribution and how that affects renown rewards in any given zone aren't spelled out in detail anywhere I cannot provide detailed specifics and am left to perception.
If any member of the dev team would like to honestly talk specifics of mechanics I would try my best to discuss with them. But that would require discussing information that seems to be kept under lock and key. But hey, you know my name and you can PM me.
You get contribution for... contributing to the RvR campaign. The specifics aren't listed because there are a lot of ways you generate contribution, and we didn't want to list exactly what they are so people would focus less on ticking off a checklist and more on playing the game naturally. This doesn't have any specific impact on pugs.
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[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

mogt
Posts: 402

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#17 » Sun May 02, 2021 10:02 pm

yeah you are right wargrimmir.

the players must learn to play the game naturally and not with a checklist, what a player can do, with minium effort to maximaze anything, that is the wrong way.

you get contri in rvr , if you do , as example, deff and attack bo, destroy siege weapons , kill players , attack a keep etc etc. that is information enough for players, how you get contri in rvr. you dont must discuss anything,

arorwne
Posts: 185

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#18 » Sun May 02, 2021 10:07 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:19 pm
arorwne wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:03 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:14 pm
You'd get more done if you applied your energy towards organizing players in need of a guild. Pugs are not the answer, they're a problem to be fixed.
Let me clarify this:

Solo players and PUGs are a problem? (do you even hear yourself?)
What are you clarifying?
Just distilling your words. So the main point is more clear.

Regardless, a lot has been done to promote, almost force grouping. From the way how RvR works, to ultra dense, fast respawning PvE zones...it's all the same: group fodder. I try to be efficient, but even I falter, some zones like Caves or Vaul's Anvil(="Khaine's Domain" PQ) are simply...too much for anyone without KDs, Active Defenses(say Repel Blasphemy) or Heals(or, even better all 3). But even for a Duo, let alone Trio, they are literally nothing, very efficient and comfortable zone. The truth is: not everyone wants to or can play in groups regularly. Do you want them to simply not play then? And then there's the fact that there's simply not enough players to cover even 20% of activities(multiple RvR zones, Scenarios, Cities, Dungeons, PQs, Lairs etc). You know.

Now, the problem is that you are going to run into these, run into problems, meanwhile...1v1 PvE(often even 1v1 PvP ; but that's different) is simply terribly boring. Lose / Lose. Unless you group up.

I know that it is an MMO and I know that it is a Private Server...YOUR Private Server and thanks for everything, you literally enabled me to tie up some old loose threads as it were, but...even then, being this aggressive towards Solo / PUG isn't a way you will accomplish anything. The proper way is to PROMOTE aka INCENTIVIZE doing something a certain way, NOT PUNISHING "undesirable" stuff. Maybe give more XP / RR / INF in groups or idk, but punishing always results in...bad results, really. Tbh.

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wargrimnir
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#19 » Sun May 02, 2021 10:21 pm

arorwne wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:07 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:19 pm
arorwne wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:03 pm


Let me clarify this:

Solo players and PUGs are a problem? (do you even hear yourself?)
What are you clarifying?
Just distilling your words. So the main point is more clear.

Regardless, a lot has been done to promote, almost force grouping. From the way how RvR works, to ultra dense, fast respawning PvE zones...it's all the same: group fodder. I try to be efficient, but even I falter, some zones like Caves or Vaul's Anvil(="Khaine's Domain" PQ) are simply...too much for anyone without KDs, Active Defenses(say Repel Blasphemy) or Heals(or, even better all 3). But even for a Duo, let alone Trio, they are literally nothing, very efficient and comfortable zone.

Now, the problem is that you are going to run into these, run into problems, meanwhile...1v1 PvE(often even 1v1 PvP ; but that's different) is simply terribly boring. Lose / Lose. Unless you group up.

I know that it is an MMO and I know that it is a Private Server...YOUR Private Server and thanks for everything, you literally enabled me to tie up some old loose threads as it were, but...even then, being this aggressive towards Solo / PUG isn't a way you will accomplish anything. The proper way is to PROMOTE aka INCENTIVIZE doing something a certain way, NOT PUNISHING "undesirable" stuff. Maybe give more XP / RR / INF in groups or idk, but punishing always results in...bad results, really. Tbh.
Distilling is a fun way of saying cherry picking.

Playing entirely solo seems to be what you're focusing on as pug, but these are two very different things. We assume a Pug is someone who plays primarily in Pick Up Groups, meaning they don't have a regular group of people they play with and don't want that level of social engagement to complete their goals. They join open warbands and tend to follow whatever is in front of them without much mindfulness to what they're doing. The community is responsible for bringing these players into a social environment that develops them into better players, from a development perspective all these tools are available. High levels of coordinated play are prominent on the server, and maintaining a Pug mentality while being in the same sphere of influence means you're going to end up losing more than you win. The natural progression for a Pug player is to socialize, specialize, and integrate with groups that will elevate each other to success.

If you want to make a case that playing solo is discouraged on the server, I won't argue it. This isn't that kind of MMO where you have a start to finish solo experience playing out a hero fantasy.
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[email protected] for exploits and cheaters.
grimnir.me Some old WAR blog

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sharpblader
Posts: 101

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#20 » Sun May 02, 2021 10:49 pm

I feel people misconstrue the " punishment " here.

I don't believe that the game is coded to give a solo player less rewards, rather the game design of mass pvp battles hinders a solo player from getting effective renown and contribution (Along with the fact that it is not easy to 1v2 in this game for all classes at the same skill and gear).

Renown: You get less renown if you kill an opponent who is lower RR than you. Lesser, if you killed them in a group and even lesser if they have been killed recently. This renown might drop down to single digit especially if your opponent is below combat rank 40. If you find these enemies running solo you can bet that they've died recently as most do.

Contribution: Now what really kills your contribution as solo or small scale, is long drawn siege battles. These battles can result in so many kills that even if you spent the last one hour prior to siege solo killing everyone in the zone with top kbs, you will be sent back to the middle of the bell curve after the siege.

Now of course, since the exact system isn't public, this is all conjecture based on my experience of playing solo 90% of the time.

I'm getting a lot of hate vibe from this thread. Think for a moment. If devs truly wanted to make solo gameplay obsolete, they wouldve nerfed strong solo classes, deleted fleshrender regen rings, removed regen renown.

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