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Punishment of the Pugs

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arorwne
Posts: 185

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#21 » Sun May 02, 2021 10:51 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:21 pm
arorwne wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 10:07 pm
wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 9:19 pm


What are you clarifying?
Just distilling your words. So the main point is more clear.

Regardless, a lot has been done to promote, almost force grouping. From the way how RvR works, to ultra dense, fast respawning PvE zones...it's all the same: group fodder. I try to be efficient, but even I falter, some zones like Caves or Vaul's Anvil(="Khaine's Domain" PQ) are simply...too much for anyone without KDs, Active Defenses(say Repel Blasphemy) or Heals(or, even better all 3). But even for a Duo, let alone Trio, they are literally nothing, very efficient and comfortable zone.

Now, the problem is that you are going to run into these, run into problems, meanwhile...1v1 PvE(often even 1v1 PvP ; but that's different) is simply terribly boring. Lose / Lose. Unless you group up.

I know that it is an MMO and I know that it is a Private Server...YOUR Private Server and thanks for everything, you literally enabled me to tie up some old loose threads as it were, but...even then, being this aggressive towards Solo / PUG isn't a way you will accomplish anything. The proper way is to PROMOTE aka INCENTIVIZE doing something a certain way, NOT PUNISHING "undesirable" stuff. Maybe give more XP / RR / INF in groups or idk, but punishing always results in...bad results, really. Tbh.
Distilling is a fun way of saying cherry picking.

Playing entirely solo seems to be what you're focusing on as pug, but these are two very different things. We assume a Pug is someone who plays primarily in Pick Up Groups, meaning they don't have a regular group of people they play with and don't want that level of social engagement to complete their goals. They join open warbands and tend to follow whatever is in front of them without much mindfulness to what they're doing. The community is responsible for bringing these players into a social environment that develops them into better players, from a development perspective all these tools are available. High levels of coordinated play are prominent on the server, and maintaining a Pug mentality while being in the same sphere of influence means you're going to end up losing more than you win. The natural progression for a Pug player is to socialize, specialize, and integrate with groups that will elevate each other to success.

If you want to make a case that playing solo is discouraged on the server, I won't argue it. This isn't that kind of MMO where you have a start to finish solo experience playing out a hero fantasy.
It never was that solo friendly. Arguably, that didn't help its fate. MMOs had to keep up with times, WAR didn't and ... we all know what happened. But I'm always a Solo > Group > PUG type of person(PUGs are just so terribly unreliable and inefficient, it bothers me greatly - and they aren't even that social, you literally get nothing except a possible migraine - soft relationships are nice though), so...

...with that said, it isn't necessarily a natural progression. PUGs often want to ... PUG and you clearly delineated why(they can't play regularly or they don't want what I call "Hard Relationships"). But if that's true, why on earth would they want to progress into a ... "Hard Relationship" group(when that's something they DO NOT WANT)? PUGs want to PUG, that's it. But that's just my opinion, it's equally, maybe slightly more possible than your interpretation.

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Strakar
Posts: 36

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#22 » Sun May 02, 2021 11:00 pm

I don't think anyone complaining here has played Everquest, WOW or any other countless MMOs, pvp or pve where coordinated effort is going to be more effective than solo or pug. Not every game is going to excel at every playstyle.

This game is actually pretty pug friendly from a rewards standpoint. To take it to the next level you need to coordinate. Im not sure where you expect to inject solo content. There are definitely dead spots sometimes, I just log off and play real life. The devs are doing a great job, if there are practical solutions than I'm sure they will be considered if positioned practically.

lyncher12
Suspended
Posts: 540

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#23 » Sun May 02, 2021 11:20 pm

you literally get the same reward as i get for having top kills in a zone, just for roleplaying ups
you get the same reward for winning a sc that my 6 man carries
was a good read, ty

Bloodmasked
Posts: 140

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#24 » Sun May 02, 2021 11:21 pm

Queue solo ranked its the most pug friendly gamemode atm

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Talladego
Posts: 17
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Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#25 » Sun May 02, 2021 11:23 pm

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 7:14 pm
You'd get more done if you applied your energy towards organizing players in need of a guild. Pugs are not the answer, they're a problem to be fixed.
Not sure how you mean Pugs are a problem to be fixed. One of the strengths of this great game in my opinion is the built-in mechanics for joining open warbands and pug-scenarios. At least for someone like me who rarely can dedicate the hours required to play in an organized fashion.

Of course that means the quality of play and amount of rewards are lower than for a premade scenario group or organized guild warband. But that's fine since the alternative would be to not play at all. Sure I would prefer if scenarios were completely separate for pugs and premades. As it is a premade facing a pug in scenario is basically just getting free renown and emblems. But that is the way the server is designed so just deal with it I guess. Even though it seems to me ranked scenarios are where premades belong.
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arorwne
Posts: 185

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#26 » Sun May 02, 2021 11:24 pm

Strakar wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 11:00 pm
I don't think anyone complaining here has played Everquest, WOW or any other countless MMOs, pvp or pve where coordinated effort is going to be more effective than solo or pug. Not every game is going to excel at every playstyle.

This game is actually pretty pug friendly from a rewards standpoint. To take it to the next level you need to coordinate. Im not sure where you expect to inject solo content. There are definitely dead spots sometimes, I just log off and play real life. The devs are doing a great job, if there are practical solutions than I'm sure they will be considered if positioned practically.
They are doing the best they can do with what they have(and otherwise bloody good job). It's just that what they have isn't terribly high quality to begin with. Rather average, honestly.

And here's yet another possibility. Solo players who are "stranded" here due to a chronic lack of Warhammer Fantasy RPGs. What are we supposed to do, twiddle our thumbs? Look menacing? But yeah, we are(I am) an outlier. I know for a fact I am an outlier here. And that's fine. I'm eternally grateful to Grimnir and co for their work. The underlying game is meh and average(apart from Warhammer Fantasy IP), but their dedication and things like that are nothing short of impressive. Arguably, they've done as much as Molten WoW, but with no financial(or otherwise) backing, that's seriously impressive.

As for EQ or old WoW...that's not exactly a standard WAR itself should have aspired to(instead it should've aspired to 2010 standards and it at least tried, I'll give them that) and certainly isn't what RoR should aspire to nowadays in the year AD 2021. The thing is, the old feel of it all will simply stick out like a sore thumb. Even WoW, Runescape, EverQuest etc changed themselves to fit the times. Nothing needs changing, I am simply discussing and stating facts.

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Tillirage
Posts: 7

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#27 » Mon May 03, 2021 1:55 am

I don't even know what is your problem and why this post exist... I was going to type long explaination about why pug/solo play bad but its not even necessary like this post.

Ronald
Posts: 12

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#28 » Mon May 03, 2021 2:52 am

Perhaps by RR rewards are pugs and solo'ers discouraged. That said, in actual warband battles I have on numerous occasions seen outnumbered Order pugs defeat overwhelming numbers of Destro "premade" guild groups.

Heck, even in SCs I've seen pug order stomp destro premades.

The odds are against you, but far from impossible. We did not sign up for an easy game.

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Teek
Posts: 25

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#29 » Mon May 03, 2021 2:56 am

wargrimnir wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:27 pm
This is another non-statement that doesn't have any example of a system that you have an issue with. You're mad at an idea, a notion, a concept. What actual coded function exists that is holding back players from participating on the server? How would you change it?

That's how you make a constructive statement rather than an inflammatory post that serves nothing but harassing staff with vague accusations. Your initial statement, and followup clarification of your initial statement are equally hollow and serve only to paint staff and dev decisions as aggressively hostile towards pugs with no examples of what those systems actually are.
The team has made many comments on how the game is not catered for pug players and never will be. Is he harassing or trying to provide feedback? I feel like new players should be able to blow off steam caused by frustration which may help them get over whatever hump they are trying to hurdle. Newer or casual players which tend to "pug" are still needed to grow any game from stagnation and if that experience is brutal they likely wont stay for long.

Just wait till he realizes the gear gap between sov and conq and exactly how difficult it is to close said gap. Do I want to get smacked around for months by sov geared players rarely having any success, fun or victory or just go play another game. Imagine hitting 40 and finding out the 1st class you rolled isnt accepted in city and his chances of BIS gear are slim to none. I find it kind of ironic that a game that focuses so much on group play doesnt allow 1/3rd of the classes to be useful enough to get into the end game content.

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Asderas27
Posts: 66

Re: Punishment of the Pugs

Post#30 » Mon May 03, 2021 6:40 am

Why is this post still up ? Imagine thinking game isn't pug friendly when the changes they have made are in fact helping solo and pug players. They changes the city queue system to help solo queues. You get same reward for solo queuing as you get for taking effort in forming a group. They made rvr bags drop royal crests. You can run boxes and get tokens which give access to BiS gear. They even made balanced solo queue sc for whiners complaining how they lose because they are not 2-2-2 not admitting ofc how **** they are at the game. They had to revert that change because same whiners complaining sc pops are not fast enough. Trash players using excuses like enemy is full sov when they see the cloak when most of them dont even understand how to play their own class. Complaining how xrealming ruins game and other ****. All excuses for own **** play and unwillingness to make effort. Everyone just wants to get gear for no effort, no time investment. Go play something else. Players who make posts like these leave after getting gear anyway.
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