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TreefAM
Posts: 622

Re: Melee bombing

Post#51 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:43 pm

Man you're saying like people don't take BW/Sorc in their bomb groups while BWs still being the #1 way of smashing a mara train. In orvr kiting comps are still king.

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BeautfulToad
Posts: 542

Re: Melee bombing

Post#52 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:03 pm

Justina wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:02 am
Can you please stay on topic. It is about melee bombing, not a general balance discussion.
Saying you should outright ban "melee bombing" is a balance discussion. See wonshot's post - who kind of agrees with you. Even he does not say melee compositions should be banned, just that rdps is becoming mechanically less relevant than it used to be (I don't agree with him entirely) and melee is overperforming (I still think BW/Sorc are one of the best all-round dps class).

Whether you agree with him or not, but he has a logic to what he is saying and I can respect it, and you should read it and develop a much more coherent argument. Choppas and slayers won't be banned and they will always be important in large rvr, that must be obvious to you. Get to the Choppa has been nerfed considerably, so it is not clear what you are suggesting be done with the choppa pull. The pull has to be higher range than choppas attacks. If you say Choppa should not have a pull and be given a rampage-like ability instead, I doubt order melee (particularly WPs) would like that very much.
Last edited by BeautfulToad on Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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phononHYPE
Posts: 530

Re: Melee bombing

Post#53 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:27 pm

2c from my pov as [snb knight, SW, WL, snb BG, 2h choppa, pbaoe magus, heal shaman):

I don't notice any of this crap.

Just play the dang game, it's not that bad. Organization is what kills me on either side.

But:
Really, choppa pull ain't that bad.
Rampage sucks in large groups but you expect it so spread out.
BHA sucks but ain't that bad.
WL aoe is solid, and I'd argue viable as single target so you don't gimp yourself too much by staying aoe all the time; I just don't like playing it (just made 80 on my WL last night).
Pulls: as Order, Mara pull is only one I'm scared of, so I run or LOS it (doesn't always work), but hey, it's a tool I don't begrudge them. Pounce, maybe it's just me, but vs a normally running slayer, we arrive at the same time - that pisses me off but again, pretty sure it's my lag.
Pulls: as Destro, Pounce always gets them on me, I hate it (but don't begrudge it), Engi pull... um, haven't seen this in a while, they seem to be all snipe spec or aoe for Fort doors (HATE that).
Charges? either side, nice but expected options. Doesn't come into play in Forts or Cities, barely at all in large scale ORVR either. This is only used in small scale (get back from punt, try to catch already broken enemy) or 1v1.
Snare Breaks - CD controlled. Good once in a fight, but expect about 3-6 snares per fight so not a factor. I'll use this early just so hopefully the CD is up mid fight when I need it again (though there were about 5 times I needed it between).
Mara aoe-KD, this sucks, big, but it only really lets Destro get in better positioning. Comparable to GTDC pull in handing out free immunities. I actually notice this more than GTDC, and it seems that this use to be like, 2s KD? to compensate for the aoe factor, but I could be wrong. This ability is what I fear when playing Order, but it's more just supper annoying.

What I DON'T like is Mara dps being so tough. Not nerf worthy, but just tweeked a bit perhaps. I don't have a mara, SH, or RP, so those classes I only know as playing vs.


So, none of it is that bad, but organized groups will use it all to their maximum effectiveness. That's what I think needs a nerf, the socialization and voice comms and guild/alliance groups. And puppies. Also my ISP, I hate them the most. Melee murderball, either side is also toned down by shaman/AM puddles.
Chasing the golden carrot that is my alts.

my 2h choppa ideas
learn about Initiative

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Onigokko0101
Posts: 192

Re: Melee bombing

Post#54 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:41 pm

MMXX43 wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:37 pm
Cultist wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:59 am
"melee bombing" ? maybe you meant "melee meta" ??

I agree, Slayers and WL shouild be tunned down.

And BHA made comparable to SH counterpart viewtopic.php?f=15&t=45415#p484392
" Having 4+ stacks of x3 BHA is fkn unreal broken and unbelievable it's been like this for a while.

How is broadhead stacking broken and melee aoe stacking or magus dot stacking is not?

You need to fire it three times to do some damage and it can be blocked, evaded... and it is affected by the targets armor ... and the 3x stacking can be cleasned with 1x cleanse ... and it has only a small radius ... and you have to get very close as squishy SW. Compared to the melee aoe stacking this is not overpowered at all and way harder to perform.

What is really broken in this game is the amount of times you are getting pulled by maras and choppas while order has not really working pull at all. Lots of free kills for destro. We can nerf broadhead when you nerf that pull crap too."
As for Magus Pandemonium + Glean does much less damage then BHA and requires a 1s cast.
Khrylashe - Zealot
Devarien - Blackguard
Bigdisc- Magus
Aendael - Warrior Priest
Nusku- Bright Wizard

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Onigokko0101
Posts: 192

Re: Melee bombing

Post#55 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:53 pm

MMXX43 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:21 am
starness88 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:03 am
MMXX43 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:00 am
You tried !!!!!
Cmon dude that clealy your worst dodge ever. That's weak
There was nothing serious on that post......you listed a complete kit of destro potential rebranded it order and went for a generic overview. I will deduce you now.

"I will name some of them cause it will be too long and to write all abilities where no mirroring is in your favor (and i have no time for it).
( You will now name EFFECTS as ABILITIES )

Long range stun ( Destro has that. )
More raw damage, raw defense, raw healing ( Got it, super got it, got it )
Damage reduction ( Got it )
Undefendable damage ( Got it )
Self cleanse on bw ( laughable)
Crit chance reduction ( Pretty sure you got it )
Moral leech ( Got it )
AOe damage ( Super uber got it )

On the other hand you have .

Best punt in game ( BG )
Actual working 2h specs for tanks !!!
Non immunity triggering cc ( windblock )
Insane speed on 2 overstacked classes / racial of Orcs also OP )
3 working pulls ( Choppa has a triffecta , or maybe quadraeffecta, speed, damage, pull, interupt)
litterally every class possibly including the choppa is better than its Order counterpart for the below reason :
ACTUAL DEBUFF SYNERGY ! corp for corp debuff , spiritual magus / sorc debuff, elemental debuff for elemental damage dealers ( shammies , AM puddle debuffs initiave )
Also magus pandemonium is the new BHA

Again, dogding is one thing, having someone cocky while been oblivious to basic stuff and thus deserving nothing more than contempt is another.

P.S : I liked how you pre built your dogde narrative 1 post above this so you can exponentiate your destro biased angst.

Good read.
k ima tackle this.

1) IB has the same punt as BG
2) Order tanks absolutely have working and strong 2H builds. Just because BG is most likely the strongest 2H tank (and it is) does not make Order unable to spec 2h
3) Windblock is an M4 that applies a healdebuff, Winds of Insanity is what you are thinking of. Its a very short knockback that yes, does not give immunity but is on a squishy healer. If you are going for a WoI play you normally need to drop your 2 minute CD with it. It really isnt that OP
4) Im da biggest is just a stat ball, and often times you drop it once you have good gear. How is that OP?
5) Pulls can only be used every 30s, can be defended against, and countered. Only people really afraid of pulls are random unguarded DPS or healers that dont get guard swapped to. Its a l2p issues.
6) Order classes straight up do more damage without the debuffs, the debuffs put them on par with Order not above.
Sorc does less damage then BW straight up with their AoE, even with the Magus+Zealot debuffs (and Zealot debuff requires a melee range healer or a DPS Zealot).
Elemental Debuff is basically useless for WB play

Im not saying Order is OP, but I am saying your argument makes no sense and reeks of someone that has never played both sides.
Khrylashe - Zealot
Devarien - Blackguard
Bigdisc- Magus
Aendael - Warrior Priest
Nusku- Bright Wizard

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MMXX43
Posts: 184

Re: Melee bombing

Post#56 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:48 pm

Onigokko0101 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:53 pm
MMXX43 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:21 am
starness88 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:03 am


Cmon dude that clealy your worst dodge ever. That's weak
There was nothing serious on that post......you listed a complete kit of destro potential rebranded it order and went for a generic overview. I will deduce you now.

"I will name some of them cause it will be too long and to write all abilities where no mirroring is in your favor (and i have no time for it).
( You will now name EFFECTS as ABILITIES )

Long range stun ( Destro has that. )
More raw damage, raw defense, raw healing ( Got it, super got it, got it )
Damage reduction ( Got it )
Undefendable damage ( Got it )
Self cleanse on bw ( laughable)
Crit chance reduction ( Pretty sure you got it )
Moral leech ( Got it )
AOe damage ( Super uber got it )

On the other hand you have .

Best punt in game ( BG )
Actual working 2h specs for tanks !!!
Non immunity triggering cc ( windblock )
Insane speed on 2 overstacked classes / racial of Orcs also OP )
3 working pulls ( Choppa has a triffecta , or maybe quadraeffecta, speed, damage, pull, interupt)
litterally every class possibly including the choppa is better than its Order counterpart for the below reason :
ACTUAL DEBUFF SYNERGY ! corp for corp debuff , spiritual magus / sorc debuff, elemental debuff for elemental damage dealers ( shammies , AM puddle debuffs initiave )
Also magus pandemonium is the new BHA

Again, dogding is one thing, having someone cocky while been oblivious to basic stuff and thus deserving nothing more than contempt is another.

P.S : I liked how you pre built your dogde narrative 1 post above this so you can exponentiate your destro biased angst.

Good read.
k ima tackle this.

1) IB has the same punt as BG
2) Order tanks absolutely have working and strong 2H builds. Just because BG is most likely the strongest 2H tank (and it is) does not make Order unable to spec 2h
3) Windblock is an M4 that applies a healdebuff, Winds of Insanity is what you are thinking of. Its a very short knockback that yes, does not give immunity but is on a squishy healer. If you are going for a WoI play you normally need to drop your 2 minute CD with it. It really isnt that OP
4) Im da biggest is just a stat ball, and often times you drop it once you have good gear. How is that OP?
5) Pulls can only be used every 30s, can be defended against, and countered. Only people really afraid of pulls are random unguarded DPS or healers that dont get guard swapped to. Its a l2p issues.
6) Order classes straight up do more damage without the debuffs, the debuffs put them on par with Order not above.
Sorc does less damage then BW straight up with their AoE, even with the Magus+Zealot debuffs (and Zealot debuff requires a melee range healer or a DPS Zealot).
Elemental Debuff is basically useless for WB play

Im not saying Order is OP, but I am saying your argument makes no sense and reeks of someone that has never played both sides.
1) IB has the same punt as BG ( wrong )
2) wrong
3) ammended still stands at least 2 organized wbs have a zealot for that , zealot squishy also unkillable if crosshealed or staggering or kiting.
4) a lot of choppa and bo run it, you are wrong.
5) sure l2p....sure.
6) a) wrong,
b) sorc does INSANE st damage even on healed and guarded targets.
7) game isnt all about wb play. 1-1 destro has advantages across the board.

Destro is op always has been an op joke since live even more now that order lost the live crit meta. Check some posts above this you ll see my opinion and alo the category you are falling into .
" Though Justice be thy plea, consider this. That in the course of Justice none of us should see Salvation. We do pray for Mercy.." Братья, перестаньте играть в отступников

starness88
Posts: 48

Re: Melee bombing

Post#57 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:49 pm

MMXX43 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:48 pm
Onigokko0101 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:53 pm
MMXX43 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:21 am


There was nothing serious on that post......you listed a complete kit of destro potential rebranded it order and went for a generic overview. I will deduce you now.

"I will name some of them cause it will be too long and to write all abilities where no mirroring is in your favor (and i have no time for it).
( You will now name EFFECTS as ABILITIES )

Long range stun ( Destro has that. )
More raw damage, raw defense, raw healing ( Got it, super got it, got it )
Damage reduction ( Got it )
Undefendable damage ( Got it )
Self cleanse on bw ( laughable)
Crit chance reduction ( Pretty sure you got it )
Moral leech ( Got it )
AOe damage ( Super uber got it )

On the other hand you have .

Best punt in game ( BG )
Actual working 2h specs for tanks !!!
Non immunity triggering cc ( windblock )
Insane speed on 2 overstacked classes / racial of Orcs also OP )
3 working pulls ( Choppa has a triffecta , or maybe quadraeffecta, speed, damage, pull, interupt)
litterally every class possibly including the choppa is better than its Order counterpart for the below reason :
ACTUAL DEBUFF SYNERGY ! corp for corp debuff , spiritual magus / sorc debuff, elemental debuff for elemental damage dealers ( shammies , AM puddle debuffs initiave )
Also magus pandemonium is the new BHA

Again, dogding is one thing, having someone cocky while been oblivious to basic stuff and thus deserving nothing more than contempt is another.

P.S : I liked how you pre built your dogde narrative 1 post above this so you can exponentiate your destro biased angst.

Good read.
k ima tackle this.

1) IB has the same punt as BG
2) Order tanks absolutely have working and strong 2H builds. Just because BG is most likely the strongest 2H tank (and it is) does not make Order unable to spec 2h
3) Windblock is an M4 that applies a healdebuff, Winds of Insanity is what you are thinking of. Its a very short knockback that yes, does not give immunity but is on a squishy healer. If you are going for a WoI play you normally need to drop your 2 minute CD with it. It really isnt that OP
4) Im da biggest is just a stat ball, and often times you drop it once you have good gear. How is that OP?
5) Pulls can only be used every 30s, can be defended against, and countered. Only people really afraid of pulls are random unguarded DPS or healers that dont get guard swapped to. Its a l2p issues.
6) Order classes straight up do more damage without the debuffs, the debuffs put them on par with Order not above.
Sorc does less damage then BW straight up with their AoE, even with the Magus+Zealot debuffs (and Zealot debuff requires a melee range healer or a DPS Zealot).
Elemental Debuff is basically useless for WB play

Im not saying Order is OP, but I am saying your argument makes no sense and reeks of someone that has never played both sides.
1) IB has the same punt as BG ( wrong )
2) wrong
3) ammended still stands at least 2 organized wbs have a zealot for that , zealot squishy also unkillable if crosshealed or staggering or kiting.
4) a lot of choppa and bo run it, you are wrong.
5) sure l2p....sure.
6) a) wrong,
b) sorc does INSANE st damage even on healed and guarded targets.
7) game isnt all about wb play. 1-1 destro has advantages across the board.

Destro is op always has been an op joke since live even more now that order lost the live crit meta. Check some posts above this you ll see my opinion and alo the category you are falling into .

1- Right but and ib can still kick out someone of a fight and doesn't bring to build his grudge for this so it's l2p issue
2- True, many 2h order tank play well so if you can't play a 2h correctly it's again an l2p issue
3- Wind of insanity can be kick, i know it's harder since NB has been nerf. Again l2p issue
4- Only when they are in solo. Dwarf had a 50 % control time reduce tell me it's not op please :lol:
5- True, a pull bring an immune to the target. So you should l2p it's a basic of ROR
6- True, Order has more raw damage it was suppose to balance our moral drop. But we took several nerf from this time and your damage didn't
7- Game isn't about 1-1
MMXX43 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:48 pm
Destro is op always has been an op joke since live even more now that order lost the live crit meta. Check some posts above this you ll see my opinion and alo the category you are falling into
The forum is order biased, Check some posts above this you ll see my opinion and alo the category you are falling into ;)

User avatar
MMXX43
Posts: 184

Re: Melee bombing

Post#58 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:59 pm

starness88 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:49 pm
MMXX43 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:48 pm
Onigokko0101 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:53 pm


k ima tackle this.

1) IB has the same punt as BG
2) Order tanks absolutely have working and strong 2H builds. Just because BG is most likely the strongest 2H tank (and it is) does not make Order unable to spec 2h
3) Windblock is an M4 that applies a healdebuff, Winds of Insanity is what you are thinking of. Its a very short knockback that yes, does not give immunity but is on a squishy healer. If you are going for a WoI play you normally need to drop your 2 minute CD with it. It really isnt that OP
4) Im da biggest is just a stat ball, and often times you drop it once you have good gear. How is that OP?
5) Pulls can only be used every 30s, can be defended against, and countered. Only people really afraid of pulls are random unguarded DPS or healers that dont get guard swapped to. Its a l2p issues.
6) Order classes straight up do more damage without the debuffs, the debuffs put them on par with Order not above.
Sorc does less damage then BW straight up with their AoE, even with the Magus+Zealot debuffs (and Zealot debuff requires a melee range healer or a DPS Zealot).
Elemental Debuff is basically useless for WB play

Im not saying Order is OP, but I am saying your argument makes no sense and reeks of someone that has never played both sides.
1) IB has the same punt as BG ( wrong )
2) wrong
3) ammended still stands at least 2 organized wbs have a zealot for that , zealot squishy also unkillable if crosshealed or staggering or kiting.
4) a lot of choppa and bo run it, you are wrong.
5) sure l2p....sure.
6) a) wrong,
b) sorc does INSANE st damage even on healed and guarded targets.
7) game isnt all about wb play. 1-1 destro has advantages across the board.

Destro is op always has been an op joke since live even more now that order lost the live crit meta. Check some posts above this you ll see my opinion and alo the category you are falling into .

1- Right but and ib can still kick out someone of a fight and doesn't bring to build his grudge for this so it's l2p issue
2- True, many 2h order tank play well so if you can't play a 2h correctly it's again an l2p issue
3- Wind of insanity can be kick, i know it's harder since NB has been nerf. Again l2p issue
4- Only when they are in solo. Dwarf had a 50 % control time reduce tell me it's not op please :lol:
5- True, a pull bring an immune to the target. So you should l2p it's a basic of ROR
6- True, Order has more raw damage it was suppose to balance our moral drop. But we took several nerf from this time and your damage didn't
7- Game isn't about 1-1
MMXX43 wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:48 pm
Destro is op always has been an op joke since live even more now that order lost the live crit meta. Check some posts above this you ll see my opinion and alo the category you are falling into
The forum is order biased, Check some posts above this you ll see my opinion and alo the category you are falling into ;)
Vey original , keep it up.
" Though Justice be thy plea, consider this. That in the course of Justice none of us should see Salvation. We do pray for Mercy.." Братья, перестаньте играть в отступников

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CountTalabecland
Posts: 853

Re: Melee bombing

Post#59 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:52 pm

Destro plays more meta comps more often.

Its why they win so many cities, also fewer of their classes are bad, and I would argue, none of them are deadweight. If you are on Order you might be able to make a /5 grp that is geared well enough to stand up to destro, but you better not queue anywhere above 10 minutes left.

God help anyone who queues for pug city as Order, you masochistic bastards. Its 90% solo RDPS and "DPS" AMs.

AM is king squish and ppl who have geared heal spec ones and know how to stay alive are very, very few.

Destro has better balanced classes and more ppl playing the strong ones. Outside of forts, it amazes me when Order wins anything due to just how terrible the class comp is most days.

Also if you want a good LoL, ask in Order chat some time about whether anyone wants to play SM now. Class gets a great buff and everyone still hates him cause he ugly.
Brynnoth Goldenbeard (40/75) (IB) -- Rundin Fireheart (40/50) (RP) -- Ungrinn (40/40) (Engi)-- Bramm Bloodaxe (40/83) (Slayer) and a few Empire characters here or there, maybe even an elf.

Collision
Posts: 90

Re: Melee bombing

Post#60 » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:15 pm

CountTalabecland wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:52 pm

Destro plays more meta comps more often.
Destro has better balanced classes and more ppl playing the strong ones.
AM is king squish and ppl who have geared heal spec ones and know how to stay alive are very, very few.
Yeah because if you want to be competitive against order you haven't the choice. Saying destro is more balance is a joke.

Some AM (probably with a WP) are unkillable too, it's a l2p issue if you always die playing it (bad placement, no aoe snare etc).

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