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cities issue

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Stophy22
Posts: 444

Re: cities issue

Post#11 » Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:37 pm

There is significantly more issues with city than people leaving them if they are unfavorable and a bad time investment. Rather than attacking the players who leave your city for x reasons why not criticize the system and offer actually decent feedback?

Giving negative repercussions to leaving city (as someone mentioned before; -50/25% stat reduction for hours) is actual pepega minds at work. Why punish players for leaving when there is a literal portal to leave the city instance allowing players to leave it if they so desire.

Do people get 6 hours of inability to play the game if they leave a raid in games such as wow? No they typically get blacklisted and never re-invited. This power is given to all who plays warhammer RoR, feel free to use it.

Oh wait, are we doing that thing where we form 1/6/12 and instance into a city and then get mad at what other people do, and now want it punished?

That would be like if you do LFG in wow and the group you joined had someone leave (due to real life, due to lack of faith in lfg group, due to x reason here) and now you want them sanctioned. LFG exists for the lazy people unable to form, unable to invest time into a big guild, unable to invest effort into endgame actual content, it caters to all and allows people to participate in something that they shouldn't be able to without the same effort. Luckily Warhammer has no such LFG but it does have things that promote lazy players who feel entitled.

Please use your minds when thinking and discussing things, some devs/leads take some of this feedback and act on it. Again like someone said above me, "lets not reinvent the wheel." Games are current out and working with their systems and are good examples to use when trying to design something that works or isn't a pain in the ass. Instead of testing new things why not look at things that already are successful and just implement them until something better comes along?

Having issues with city where someone leaves? Here is an idea:

Don't limit the que time to 30minutes and then close it, instead have a 30minute build time
Spoiler:
(OR a set time daily where city instances pop if X criteria is met this could be kills in t4, scenarios won in t4, zones taken in t4, or even a point system with everything listed contributing to points and once a point threshold is reached, gratz city happens at selected time.)
and then after 30minutes and warbands are formed fire off the instances all at the same time, (fixes the dodging issue) 24 matches 24, 12 matches 12, 6 matches 6. Keep the que open until the last instance is completed but no new instances can be created after the build time. Limit que to solo only after the 30minute kick off to all instances then solo players now get the luxury of filling disconnected members in instances while city instances are active. They can go que and if an instance is happening and someone leaves/DC's then poof in comes a new player to fill your ranks. Obviously there should be some prio to what roles fill what spots and not all based on the, "whose-first-in-line" system.

What this doesn't cater toward solo players? Good, devs have stated multiple times that this game isn't really for solo players. Don't waste time and resources designing a system for them especially when time and resources aren't available.

Bonus questions:

Well what if there isn't a 24 warband to match on the other side?
Spoiler:
Well I'm glad you asked, there are several ways to approach this. You could make 12 instances combine to fill 24 instance, I find this dumb but is an option. Better yet, just have a que tracker so people can see what instances are que'd (omg like how ranked lets you see rdps/mdps/tanks/heals qued) you would be able to see the amount of 24s 12s 6s qued.

Now if you form 24 and there are no opposing 24s on the opposite side to fight you then why didn't you split up to match the 12 or 6 man ques? Maybe this is selfish but the system would work in times of high pop and low pop, and the current system hardly works in times of low pop, as we've seen 2instances the other night, and 3 before that? Maybe a consistent 4 instances during the NA golden city pop hours, its starting to become a joke at best.

This will force players to put in some time and effort to try and match themselves into opposing enemies to get a pop, and those who don't get a pop maybe can be shoved into the final filler instance at the end (no solo quers allowed) only 6/12/24. People can no longer get carried and instances can no longer be dodged. City doesn't become mandatory and it becomes a thing that you have to make a choice on whether you want to do it or not and if it has a set time, then you can fully plan to participate in it.
Want cities to still incentivize larger numbers queing up for them?
Spoiler:
Make them have better rewards, make it so on final stage of a 24man Vs 24man city instance the gold bags drop actual pieces of sov. Or make it so instead of fragments of royals you get actual royals from kills. This would cause everyone to want to form 24's.
What is causing people to do 12/6man instances then?
Spoiler:
Availability. Try pulling 24 good players out of your ass, it just doesn't happen. I see one person do it reliably and he dominates city queuing during NA hours currently. The community is fractured and players formed guilds for a reason, whether they made 6 man guilds or 12man guilds they are now allowed to participate in endgame content how they desire. They can have a 6v6 a 12v12 or a 24v24. Each with their own regards of loot tiers.
Afraid of the effects of making gear progression faster to incentivize systems?
Spoiler:
Right now, as a player, it seems like the preferred method of managing the game is seeing things slowly fizzle out then take a risk to ignite player passion and desire once again on a larger scale. Are we just waiting for another lazy peon video to bring us back to life or do we just wanna stagnate on how it currently goes instead of moving forward toward reaching potentially new horizons?
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kekkers
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Re: cities issue

Post#12 » Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:43 pm

Kuro says good words and I like them
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Vholrat
Posts: 76

Re: cities issue

Post#13 » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:29 pm

yes good words and only words remain. cities are afkfest. and if you are not full sov hardly you get invited at all in a wb and not all players are rr90 full sov you know? as rr 60 WL in annihilator gear (working on inva) i always get replied sry too low need rr70+ or sov. go ahead and show me how to make a party.
Giving negative repercussions to leaving city (as someone mentioned before; -50/25% stat reduction for hours) is actual pepega minds at work. Why punish players for leaving when there is a literal portal to leave the city instance allowing players to leave it if they so desire.
pepega mind and if you leave scenario you get sanctioned, for example. is that pepega mind too?

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Stophy22
Posts: 444

Re: cities issue

Post#14 » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:48 pm

Vholrat wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:29 pm yes good words and only words remain. cities are afkfest. and if you are not full sov hardly you get invited at all in a wb and not all players are rr90 full sov you know? as rr 60 WL in annihilator gear (working on inva) i always get replied sry too low need rr70+ or sov. go ahead and show me how to make a party.
Giving negative repercussions to leaving city (as someone mentioned before; -50/25% stat reduction for hours) is actual pepega minds at work. Why punish players for leaving when there is a literal portal to leave the city instance allowing players to leave it if they so desire.
pepega mind and if you leave scenario you get sanctioned, for example. is that pepega mind too?
scenarios give you quitter for 10minutes, cities give you quitter for 30 minutes. This is fine. but giving someone stat reduction is pepega.
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Vholrat
Posts: 76

Re: cities issue

Post#15 » Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:53 pm

i never mentioned stat reduction and 30 min lock is pathetic in city. you could implement accpount wide that if you left/afked in a city, the next time a capital is called , either defend or attack, you cannot queue it no matter if in group or solo.

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Aethilmar
Posts: 634

Re: cities issue

Post#16 » Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:19 pm

Skullgrin wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:32 pm All you can really do right now is to do what the Dwarves do, keep a notebook of the people who do this and hold a grudge. And then pay it back if you can.

Personally I wouldn't be against a more severe punishment for intentionally leaving a City instance, as doing so hurts others more than yourself. Something substantial, like a 6 hour -25% to -50% debuff to all your stats on all your characters. Something that would actually be a punishment instead of just an inconvenience.
Emotionally I agree.

Practically all this will do is have them go afk in a corner for the fight instead.

Part of the problem is city design i.e. there is literally nothing to do if you are getting stomped but wait it out. There are no other mechanics or alternative strategies. It is a broom closet death match.

Another part of the problem is the are no possibility of replacements for PUGs with the way the queue system is structured. If people could join in later (e.g. remain queued after signups close) then having people quit would not be ideal but at least you *might* get a replacement that actually wants to be there.

Vholrat
Posts: 76

Re: cities issue

Post#17 » Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:29 pm

this is the very rewarding and competitive mentality of cities right now. very challenging i must say...
Last edited by GamesBond on Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Do not name and shame please.

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Rubius
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Posts: 301

Re: cities issue

Post#18 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:26 am

OP's sentiment is shared here; there may be many ways to either help address it or at least find ways to support those who choose to fight until the end. Motivating players to stick around feels like the best approach instead of harming players who quit or get disconnected.

Idea: Don't reduce bags if players leave the instance / bag color adjustments
I may be wrong on this, but I believe that if members of your city leave, the game will also decrease the amount of bags given out to those who stay and fight. This can feel like a penalty on top of a penalty.

Losers already can't get gold or purple bags, so when people leave, they'll get even fewer bags total. Adjusting any of these systems can motivate people to stick around for the chance at getting currency they need. Let the same amount of bags go out no matter what, or add purple bags back for everyone in Stage 2, and then purple + gold bags back for everyone in stage 3, etc - these kinds of examples will motivate you more to stay and play until the end, because you have the best chance of rewards by staying.
----

I have been in cities where we lost in stage 1, same in stage 2, and miraculously brought it back in stage 3 to a timer victory with king kill. These moments are rare, but only really possible if people stay and fight. They're some of my favorite moments from the game. You'll catch some innocents if you implement harsh penalties to leaving cities, but OP is right that people often quit cities, and they often quit early, harming the experience for others. I think we may have good opportunities to motivate people to play instead of motivating them to log off or go elsewhere.

Just my .02!

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Stophy22
Posts: 444

Re: cities issue

Post#19 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:23 pm

Vholrat wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:53 pm i never mentioned stat reduction and 30 min lock is pathetic in city. you could implement accpount wide that if you left/afked in a city, the next time a capital is called , either defend or attack, you cannot queue it no matter if in group or solo.
Then I don't believe I am talking to you, haha. And it would be incredibly dumb as I stated to punish people for leaving the city any greater than it already is, if you are confused as to why this is you can refer to my first post.

Rubius wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 4:26 am I have been in cities...
What you say requires great resolve; I've led cities that end in ~700deaths and minimal kills on our side (if any) to win stage 3 and after doing this multiple times it just gives you a bad rap and gets you targeted on our already small server. It simply is not worth the sanity. As a leader of warbands and groups and what not it's quite a role to take on. Some people get hate for being pug leaders, others get hate for being known leaders, and some people just get hate for the fact that they are the leader. Having everyone on board that you won't give up even in the eyes of a complete and utter stomp is hard to do and will require no small amount of resolve to keep everyone active and trying even when most of them believe it to be futile. The game lacks leaders and that's often why people lose keep takes/fort takes/cities is because no one put in the effort to organize it and get everyone on the same page.

I've done my due diligence on order side trying to create a competitive force towards strong 24man premades and order side would rather stay secluded and accept the fact that they will lose. Hence the terms, "queing to lose." or "3 medals inc" symbolizing the 3 medals received from losing stage 1, 2, and 3. The already established guilds and communities on that side would rather stay secluded in their own right, some even refuse to play both sides to better their knowledge to know what they are going up against. Hence the term and meme: realm pride. At the end of the day we are just players trying to have fun so its totally fine to play how you desire but the trials and tribulations of leading aren't those of the average player.

Order side typically has a numbers advantage in day to day play so they refuse to readily learn how to play the game on skill and tactics which probably is the main contributing cause to the loss of organized even numbers combat. People can call for nerfs and buffs all they want, somethings stand out like the fact destro has mara KD's to engage or the issue with order's ranged classes and how they are so efficient by themselves might lead to the lack of realization that is 'grouping' to succeed. but the matter of fact still stands out; that if you've been around long enough and have played both sides you can see the actual problems past all the childish shouting and finger pointing that goes with every loss...

No matter the strength of one side if you have the leaders to bring everyone together and organize what will be done, and the players behind these leaders are skilled and understand basics about this game and how their class should be played and are actively putting forth effort; That side will win.

Behind every man that calls rampage is OP has never played a slayer before. Behind every man shouting destro/order is OP has never played that faction before. Behind every person complaining that leaving city should be punished is a man who has never put 3+ RR80's under their belt. Rather than looking inward for the reason of losing or reflecting upon ones self for improvement others are quick to blame and quicker to anger. Do you yourself know the mechanics of how to take a keep? Do you know how to build your character correctly for each form of content? Do you know how to lead others and tell them how to play as if you yourself were playing that role? Do you know how to play your role correctly in a group setting in order to win?

It's okay to be frustrated about things, like believing if everyone put forth their best effort and stayed and didn't leave city you could have won... but some of us have grown tired from the months we've been doing that. So maybe apologies are due to the fresh new players such as yourself but the best advice I can give you guys is surround yourself in groups where others share your ideals, that way you don't have to put up with the player that would leave city and leave you upset. Is that a hard ask? You should at least have some sort of education on the matter to discuss it otherwise the discussion that ensues is that between infants and adults and is unrecognizable in context.

I respect the ideals, I really do. But throwing oneself into enemies with the hope to win will not equal a win. You need leadership, a plan, and understanding of what your win condition is. And you have to spread this understanding so its understood to all who are playing with you, and they need to accept that. The enemy you are facing probably has all of that already so do them the courtesy of coming prepared yourself.
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Vholrat
Posts: 76

Re: cities issue

Post#20 » Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:30 pm

cities are risking to become afk botters nowaday. and i am not talking about strategy (that is a different thing) i am talking of people that join and afk at spawn area to leech a free invader)

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